Getting to Know Attorney Tanner Breed (Ep. 45)

[00:00:00] So we’re back at you within your best interest. We’ve got entrepreneur Andrea Jones. She’s the mother hen, keeps us all, uh, going and moving forward in all directions. Uh, today I wanted to bring in, uh, Tanner Breed, who is an awesome lawyer that works with us. I think it’s kind of interesting when you think about, uh, law firms and how they function and sometimes people don’t really get to see the behind the scenes or they think that the name on the wall is really important and I.

[00:00:24] I think when you hear from Tanner today, you’ll know, uh, that I’m not that important. So just wanted to go ahead and kind of, uh, bring you in, introduce you, uh, let them know the human being that you are, the dad, that you are, the family man, and kind of how we approach cases. So kick us off, Andrea. So first question, what impressed you about Tanner?

[00:00:42] When you first hired him for the firm, why did you bring Tanner on to the Seism law firm? You know, when we, when we first met, uh, when Tanner, Tanner, I met a couple times before, but uh, we actually met at a school function and I was talking to him and just, you know, you can just feel energy. We’ve talked a lot about energy of human beings.

[00:00:58] I. Um, and you, [00:01:00] I think over time, you know who really works well with, uh, you personality wise and fit wise, and you, you, you don’t get it a hundred percent right. Um, in any employee relationship or whatever. I’ve always viewed, um, our people as just a real team and people say that, but you know, when you’re in a boutique sized business, um, every person that’s there is very important to culture.

[00:01:21] Um, and so when I met Tanner originally at that deal, I, I just knew immediately. I was like, Hey. We’re gonna work together in some capacity. And I think, uh, I, I probably approached it a little more aggressively than some, but, but, um, Ken is smiling, so why are you smiling? Yeah.

[00:01:37] Tanner: No. Yeah, I, I knew Justin, um, before coming to working at the firm, uh, we met at this event and Justin put his arm around me and he told me, you’re gonna come work for me.

[00:01:48] Tanner: And that was the first time that somebody had done that for me. Uh, I had been at a few different firms in, in Fort Worth and. Trying to find my footing and to have somebody like Justin who I knew [00:02:00] and I knew, you know, everybody at the firm, uh, I think it really meant a lot to me. I was freaking out. I told my wife later that night, I, he put his arm around me, said, I’m gonna go work for him and let’s see what happens.

[00:02:12] Tanner: And he stuck true to his word. I came in, uh, I met with Justin and uh, Samantha, who was at the firm at the time. And we haven’t

[00:02:20] looked back. So, yeah. You know, and when you think about Tanner too, like I think people have this perception that all lawyers need to be the bulldog or the super aggressive Tanner can do that.

[00:02:31] Um, but his compassion, you know, not just in business but his, his personal life. You can just, you can see that, you can sense that, and it really radiates. And I think that, you know, I always use the, the, the phrase, we’ve got different flavors of ice cream at the firm. And I’m, I don’t mean to diminish our abilities as lawyers, but realistically, like there’s so many different styles that are necessary for cases and approaches.

[00:02:54] And if you have that servant’s heart out of the gate, but you have that fierce energy and you can get into a [00:03:00] courtroom and you can be kind and smile, but then you can bite like a rattlesnake. I saw that, what I believed or perceived that to be with Tanner, and it’s really shown true in the last few years.

[00:03:09] The, the clients really love his compassion and his energy and his willingness to listen. But then he gets into a courtroom and he’ll bite you like a rattlesnake. And that’s a, that’s a really good dynamic. And in this business. So Tanner, how would you describe your lowering style?

[00:03:24] Tanner: Yeah, so I think that I’m very direct, uh, most of the time, uh, with clients.

[00:03:31] Tanner: I think that. My lawyering style is almost this irrational self-confidence that any case that we take on, uh, I don’t care really what the facts look like. I want to go win it, and I take the losses harder than anybody else. And you know, we love celebrating the victories, but I think I’m very self-critical, always trying to get better.

[00:03:53] Tanner: And my style, I would say is. Uh, we’re gonna get your case out there. We’ve gotta go and present [00:04:00] something that’s very important to you and we can’t be afraid of what’s coming across the way or what a court’s gonna do in any situation. And I think people need to hear that, and I think they like to hear that you are their advocate, right?

[00:04:14] Tanner: And yes, you’re an emotional piece for them as well. They’re going through some of the most difficult situations that people can have, uh, and they’re calling you. If you can’t sit there with them, create a reasonable expectation and then go execute on it, uh, and stick to at least what your part of the, the bargain is.

[00:04:34] Tanner: Um, I think I pride myself on that with. Be hard when you have to be hard, but also listen when you need to listen. And it’s a fine balance that we have to play as lawyers. Mm-hmm.

[00:04:45] So the, the on the family law side, I, you know, I, I think about this a lot and I know we’ve asked this question. Many people have this question, why, why in the world or how in the world do you do family law?

[00:04:57] Lawyers ask that a lot, but, but honestly, [00:05:00] like lawyer to lawyer. How did you choose family law?

[00:05:03] Tanner: Yeah, so when I got outta law school, I had clerked at, um, a few different places that, uh, they were a little bit more commercial litigation based. Um, a little bit bigger firms. Uh, when you get outta law school, your number one goal is, okay, I need to get a job, right?

[00:05:18] Tanner: I need to start making some money. I have a family. Uh, I, I want this law degree to mean something. And, you know, I also need to kind of start my career. And so I actually had the benefit of shadowing. Uh, an attorney, um, Cindy Tisdale, who, uh, was just recently the, the state Bar of Texas president. And I remember, I’ll never forget, I walked into a courtroom with her.

[00:05:39] Tanner: It was in Hood County, and she just professionally dismantled the opposing party on the witness stand. And it was funny ’cause we walked out, we went and grabbed lunch and she was back to, you know, just my mother-in-law’s best friend, right? And so I thought from then on. If I can, [00:06:00] I thought that I had a skill to be able to do this, you know, practice law and if that’s something that I could hone and craft and get really good at, uh, that feeling is what I wanted to try to emulate from her taking control of the situation.

[00:06:14] Tanner: And I saw the reaction that her client had and I thought, okay, if I can go do this, make a career out of this, then it should be a very fulfilling way to at least, um, get my purpose out there.

[00:06:28] And just going into like life experiences, you, you said earlier you’ve worked for several different firms. Mm-hmm.

[00:06:33] And with, and I, I, I presume there’s differences there. Um, I’ve never actually asked you this question. So what, what is it like whenever a client calls, I. And I do the consultation initially, and then we have this team approach, and then it gets passed off to you. What is your approach and like, how do you, how, how, how do you feel honestly about how that whole dynamic goes for the client?

[00:06:55] Tanner: Yeah, that’s perfect. I, that happened this morning. Um, we had a client [00:07:00] hire, they had done a consult with you. So what happens, or what I tell the clients is, look, I’ve got all this information about you. Okay. I’ve looked up your case. I know where it’s at. I’ve got the 50,000 foot view. Every single time I, I meet with a new client though, I say, I want to hear from you first.

[00:07:16] Tanner: Okay. I’ve got plenty of data points and I kind of know where we’re going, right? Because we do this enough that we kind of see where it’s gonna go. But I want to hear from them because what they’re gonna tell me in the first 10, 15 minutes, that’s gonna be my main focus. And then addressing those issues because I know that that’s their priority, uh, I can kind of figure out where certain things are gonna go.

[00:07:39] Tanner: In six months. But what they’re gonna tell me initially is where I really wanna start. So I like opening it up to them, uh, and they will tell you what is most important very quickly. So,

[00:07:50] and you have a family, um, great wife, kids, all that. What, what is, what is, or how do, how do you balance? ’cause I, I think about that a lot.

[00:07:59] I don’t talk [00:08:00] about it a lot, but how do you balance, you know, when, when a client comes in and they’re having a horrible day and you’re going through all these crazy stories and. You get into a courtroom, uh, and you do all the things and you hear this tough stuff all day long, how do you balance that with your home life?

[00:08:15] Tanner: Yeah, that’s something I talk about a lot with, um, people that are kind of my age and, and my friends, uh, especially other people who practice law, including everybody at our firm. You know, we have a good young core, uh, and we’re all in relatively similar spots as far as families’ lives, and the duality of our, of our roles, right.

[00:08:36] Tanner: Lawyer. Then I gotta go be husband, dad, friend, son. All the hats that we all wear. I always, and I tell clients this sometimes too, you know, my son is two, he doesn’t care whether I’m the best lawyer in Fort Worth, Texas, the United States, right? I just need to be his dad. So whatever I did that day, good or bad, [00:09:00] has got to get checked at the door because.

[00:09:02] Tanner: That’s not giving him the best version of me. And so while professionally the best version of me is, you know, all the characteristics that we describe, uh, that’s not necessarily what I need to be at home. Right. And that’s hard for us. I know it’s hard for every lawyer, uh, to shut it off at times. Mm-hmm.

[00:09:21] Tanner: Uh, I’ve really struggled with that. But the more you talk about it and you just take a second to say, look. Whatever happened during my day, good or bad, you know, I need to leave that at the door because, uh, I’ve got to be present and I’ve gotta be here and keep showing up. I can’t tell my clients to keep showing up if I’m not checking in myself.

[00:09:41] Tanner: So,

[00:09:41] and, and having a family and having a young child the other way around, how does it impact your work at the firm? ’cause you understand where people are coming from potentially losing custody or getting divorced, right. With a young child.

[00:09:54] Tanner: Yeah. And I, look, I have a, a 2-year-old, um. I, I tell everybody, [00:10:00] uh, it opened up, he opened up a door that I didn’t know existed in my heart, right?

[00:10:05] Tanner: And I don’t, didn’t, I don’t wanna get emotional and think I was gonna get emotional, but every time I talk about that, um, you know, we really talk about what hits home. And so if that’s how I’m feeling, uh, as a father, um, I, I can’t even imagine some of the circumstances that my clients are having to endure.

[00:10:23] Tanner: And I, it has changed my per. Perspective on the practice of law, uh, in these last two years because I think it’s made me very critical in certain ways that I used to not be. Uh, but it’s also made me a little bit more emotionally available to, uh, people going through these situations because it’s hard, right?

[00:10:46] Tanner: Uh, all of it’s hard. Nobody wants to be calling us on the phone, right? But they need us. And so having a small child going home. Trying to make that the focus. Uh, I can only know or I can only talk about, [00:11:00] you know, I’m a big, actions are gonna speak louder than words. So now when we have people who hire us, they can say whatever they want.

[00:11:08] Tanner: I can say whatever I want. Right? What are you doing to show me that this is your priority? Because I know what I’m doing.

[00:11:14] Mm-hmm.

[00:11:15] Tanner: And so it’s almost this hypercritical nature now of, uh, listening to what people say, seeing what their actions are demonstrating. Then playing that off of my own experiences.

[00:11:25] Tanner: So,

[00:11:25] and, and Justin always says in family, no, nobody wins. You said earlier winning. I mean, that means that you get kind of what you want to get. Right. But, but you see the other side too, right? ’cause imagining married and then you have to split with your wife and then both sides wanna be involved in a kid.

[00:11:40] So I think that’s a huge benefit. Having an attorney that has a child themselves and is married. You, you’re the same way, right? With three little three daughters. For me as a, on the other side being a client. Mm-hmm. I would wanna have somebody that under, like you said, understands where you’re coming from and not somebody that the kids are potentially grown, and that’s a long time ago.

[00:11:59] That happened [00:12:00] emotionally, they’re not in the same spot. Yeah. I was gonna ask you too, like you talked about experiences and life experiences, certainly with family. And kids and bringing that to the clients and perspectives. I, I think we do a, a pretty fair job across the board because we have a lot of different life experiences mm-hmm.

[00:12:16] With the people that work in the business. So when it comes to the lawyer that’s been doing this quote 20 years, when they tell you I’ve been practicing law 20 years or 30 years or whatever, uh. One of the things that really impressed me about you is when you get into a courtroom, you don’t, you don’t get nervous and you don’t shy away from the emotions and the experiences.

[00:12:35] So, can you tell, can you tell our listeners a little bit about, um, what you experienced from lawyers from, let’s say, a two to five year lawyer to a 20 to 30? Do you really feel like there’s a lot of experience just based on years that, that you’re dealing with?

[00:12:52] Tanner: Yeah, I mean, there’s. Lawyers that are out there that I think develop reputations.[00:13:00]

[00:13:00] Tanner: Okay. And it’s because they’ve put in the work or they’ve had the big case, or they’re a partner at X, Y, and Z firm. And I think there’s certain auras that are around people. And then when you get into a courtroom and you strip it down and you say, I’m here to do my job right. I’m not concerned with who is across the table from me.

[00:13:20] Tanner: Because if you’re concerned with that, you’ve lost And I, and it’s not a winning and losing and I, I don’t disagree that family law is, it’s not necessarily about winning or losing. Right. Everybody loses by going into the process. Right. It’s making the best out of that situation. Right. Given those facts.

[00:13:38] Tanner: But from an attorney perspective, don’t think that we don’t sit around and want to win every single thing that we do. Mm-hmm. I think that’s why we are who we are. Um, and it’s not just in a courtroom, it’s in all other aspects of life, right. As far as that competitive drive. Uh, I, I think family law heightens that for all of us because we’ve already got those [00:14:00] characteristics and when it’s something that actually matters, which is your family mm-hmm.

[00:14:04] Tanner: Or when you get to see your kids or how much money you’re getting out of this divorce, it, it stokes that fire, I think, in all of us to just turn it up and go, look, I’m not worried about getting screamed at. By the court. I’m not worried about the opposing counsel calling me X, Y, or Z. Don’t care. Right.

[00:14:22] Tanner: This is the position that you need me to argue, that you want me to argue. You’re also paying me to argue. Right. That’s what we’re doing today, right? Until somebody tells us no.

[00:14:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:31] Tanner: It’s I think getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. Right. Uh, court is hard. Court was very hard. My first. I would say two years of being an attorney.

[00:14:42] Tanner: Terrifying.

[00:14:43] Yeah. Like real quick on, on that, when you have like three or four days, you’ve got a child at the house, you got all life things and you know that a client’s coming in, you’ve got three days and you’ve got a big hearing that’s on the horizon. How, how do you process all of that emotion and how do you [00:15:00] compartmentalize life and get back to basically we gotta get going and this has gonna happen in a couple days, and how do you explain that to the client?

[00:15:08] Tanner: Yeah, I think it’s. It goes back to the style, right? It is address the issue when it comes up. Lay out the guideline, right? Follow what you know works. Okay? I tell all of our clients, I can’t worry about what anybody else did for you. I. Okay. I can, I can assess it to see how we got here, but I’m not concerned with that.

[00:15:32] Tanner: I’m telling you how we’re gonna do it because this is how we’ve seen, uh, the results, you know, happen. Right. And so getting ready for those hearings or getting somebody ready is you’re diving into it. I need to know everything.

[00:15:45] And they get you all this stuff right. When you ask for it. Right? Right.

[00:15:48] Tanner: Every time I’m, I’m not filling out, uh, you know, putting exhibit stickers on, you know, that morning as I’m walking into the courthouse.

[00:15:54] Tanner: No, I mean, it’s. There’s a lot of it that, uh, and you know this, you’ve [00:16:00] phenomenal litigator, right? I would say best in the business. Um, when you go into a courtroom, something unexpected will happen, and I think what you can separate yourself from other people is learning how to address those issues on the fly and not let it derail you.

[00:16:18] And why is it so important for them to bury themselves in that like the clients bury themselves in that process and really be able to listen and absorb. What it is that you’re trying to tell ’em.

[00:16:26] Tanner: Yeah. It’s your case.

[00:16:28] Yeah.

[00:16:28] Tanner: I mean, these are your kids. This is your money. Right.

[00:16:31] And you’re the expert. I mean, like that’s, that’s

[00:16:33] Tanner: yeah.

[00:16:34] You are the expert that we Hi. You get hired. Yeah. Because you all know how to handle this. You are an attorney, right? You went to law school, like you said, you have the experience, you have seen many things. So as a client, I need to listen to you ’cause you will know what the best strategy is, right? I, I might have an idea, but I’m not an attorney and I don’t know the judge.

[00:16:51] I dunno any of those things. So I need to kind of like shut up and listen. To what you were saying and, and, and you guide us.

[00:16:57] Tanner: Well, and I think too, we, you know, we do struggle sometimes [00:17:00] with, like, Justin was talking about people getting us information. Right. I, I like to think that, so in some ways I’m a computer where I can only input information that I’m given.

[00:17:11] Tanner: Right. And then that’s how I can interpret it and spit it out however we need to. I can’t do that if you don’t tell me. Right. I tell every single client, however bad it is. Well, they always wanna tell us the good stuff, right? If it’s the bad stuff. My strategy or style is we are getting in front of that.

[00:17:29] Tanner: I’m not waiting for somebody to call you out on it. Right? When I get you up there, I’m gonna get in front of it. Now we can control the narrative because court is largely based on a narrative. You are telling a story, right? Well, I don’t need to omit the bad. Then them bring it up later. That doesn’t make you look like you’re being truthful, right?

[00:17:50] Tanner: It makes you look like you’re just hoping they don’t bring up the skeleton in the closet. Let’s get that out there.

[00:17:56] Let’s

[00:17:56] Tanner: address it

[00:17:57] and we’ll talk about the good clients in a second ’cause we have many of [00:18:00] them, but, but how the person that really is struggling emotionally and really has trouble listening.

[00:18:05] And or taking gui your guidance, um, when you have that tough client kind of midstream, can you talk a little bit about, um, how you get them back on track and then if they don’t get back on track, what is your, what is your advice and or what do you do?

[00:18:22] Tanner: Yeah. We have plenty of clients who, uh, I, I like to say we’re riding an emotional rollercoaster with them.

[00:18:30] Tanner: Um, at times I think that’s what we have to do as attorneys and just as, uh, humans. I think that a lot of times when I have a, a client like that where you’re getting into an emotional part that, you know, we’ve got the legal part covered, we’ve got that strategy dialed in. I will tell them, excuse me, I will tell them, you’re just talking to me.

[00:18:55] Tanner: Forget the attorney. Forget uh, this. Altered [00:19:00] relationship, this contractual relationship. This is just Tanner. Okay. Just talk to me like that because at the end of the day, I’m a guy who is just really good at this, but I don’t fix my car, right? I let somebody else do that. I don’t, you know, do other things that I’m not as skilled at that there are professionals, but for us it’s like, let me do this for you.

[00:19:26] Tanner: This is all we do all day, every day. I got this part figured out. I will sit here with you, right? And you can tell me whatever you need to tell me. I’m always going to have your back on this. But let’s get that game plan together, like you said, get ’em out of it to say, okay, what is your goals here? Right?

[00:19:45] Tanner: Where are we going? Not necessarily where we’ve been. A lot of people wanna focus on where we’ve been. I am always interested in where we’re going.

[00:19:53] And that’s I think one of the things that when we talk to clients that they say, I mean some of the things, your communication is always [00:20:00] on point. You’re very patient.

[00:20:01] I mean, I have listened to conversations ’cause I was in the other room. The door was closed and then, but still, you hear them, hear him speak or you talk to them how patient you are. I mean, I would’ve at some point said like, okay, we talked about this now five times to me, but you’re very patient like a big brother.

[00:20:16] Kind of like you said, like I’m 10. Like you can listen to me. The communication style I think is in details. You don’t. You put it all out there and we have heard clients that say like, he gives me all the information I need to know. So I think that’s cool. And then the patients, and they call you superhero.

[00:20:29] I mean, we have several people that call you their superhero, and that does not happen often in family law. Somebody calls you superhero. I think it’s funny ’cause I, you know, one of the things that Andrea helps us with, and I think everybody thinks well, Justin’s up here with Tanner, Andrea, and these people all work together so they don’t check each other.

[00:20:47] Right. This is just a bias Tanner’s great thing. No. Mm-hmm. Um, but I hear from you, Andrea, a lot that Tanner’s clients adore him. I clearly have heard some of the same conversations and. I have a lot of good feedback from clients, [00:21:00] but I, you actually have helped us like go and do blind polling, right? Mm-hmm.

[00:21:04] So we do SurveyMonkey, we’re like checking each other just to make sure that we’re not tooting each other’s horns and we think we’re God’s gift. And we do calls. I mean, we do call, we do random calls to clients and I sometimes do them myself, and I call clients they have, and I tell ’em, I’m not an attorney.

[00:21:18] I work for the firm, I work for Justin, and I want to know your side of the story. And it’s random. I don’t know whether the client is upset. I don’t ask anybody. I just basically pull them out the head and I called him. Mm-hmm. And every single time I get the same answer about tenant. There’s no too, in his honest, true.

[00:21:32] They say he listens, he talks to me, he explains it. He feels like a big brother because I can talk to him. It’s, there’s the, what he said earlier, there’s the tenant and there’s a lawyer. And I think they feel more, I’m talking to Tanner, the lawyer piece happened somewhere else and that makes people comfortable.

[00:21:49] I mean, I went through it myself. You are on an emotional rollercoaster when you go through it. Mm-hmm. And when you feel like somebody is listening to you and doesn’t shut you up and they, when you are on that rollercoaster, you will repeat yourself 50 times [00:22:00] and say the same times because it’s emotions that coming up.

[00:22:02] And especially if you do not go to counseling or don’t have somebody else as an outlet, your attorney’s the outlet, which is hard for your attorneys to deal with the emotional side. They feel that you really, as a client, I think the most important thing is feel hurt. Mm-hmm. Because it’s my, if I feel the attorney’s out there and it’s just, I’m just a number one another case, it’s different than I feel like they’re actually invested in me and in my case and wanna help me.

[00:22:27] And that, that’s what we hear all the time about, about tenner. No, and I think that’s important too for people to understand is like, well, I wanna talk to Justin most of the time when like, they, they, they pass off, like not pass off. But when we work as a team. They want to talk to Tanner. Like they’ve, they he’s a better list.

[00:22:43] I mean, I, we’re all skill, our different skill sets we’re all different in, in those regards. You do that on purpose. I mean, you have different Yeah, and it’s like, I, I just, I really want people to understand, like, you gotta see the human beings that are inside of a business. And I think with Tanner and, and our other attorneys, like, you’ll see the different [00:23:00] dynamics of these personalities and it’s, it’s by design because I know what my weaknesses are.

[00:23:04] And Tanner fill many, many strengths there, and we have to be able to balance all this. So, Tanner, do you like, as far as the business is concerned, um, do you feel like, honestly, do you feel like our whole team really functions as one unit and, and tries to help? And how do, how do you see, what do you perceive?

[00:23:22] That’s a loaded question. What do you perceive, like when you came into the business coming from different firms, what did you perceive like the. Energy, uh, and the culture was, and like how you felt supported and how the clients felt supported, or if they didn’t, what changes you, you, you needed to make?

[00:23:37] Tanner: Yeah. So, uh, not to have a cornball analogy, but I mean, it’s, it, it, we feel like a family, like a small family because there’s nobody at the firm that, uh, I don’t rely on in some capacity. And I think that if you get to a spot where. Uh, you can ask anybody for help [00:24:00] and they will consistently, and if they ask you for help, you know, you need to be able to step in for them.

[00:24:06] Tanner: We do a great job of that. We are hypercritical of each one of these cases. We sit around, this is what people wouldn’t really see or litigants wouldn’t really see our clients. They have no idea how much we actually talk about their cases. Yeah, because we have our own process. We want to be great in each case, and to do that, it’s not always as easy as it looks maybe when we get to the courtroom, right?

[00:24:33] Tanner: There’s a lot that’s going on behind the scenes to prepare us. You mean

[00:24:35] some of our clients aren’t Jesus?

[00:24:37] Tanner: Well, they expect, uh, they think that we’re just gonna show up and, uh, you know, knock it out and that we just go do whatever we do and they don’t care about them. We, I’d say we, and my paralegal could probably speak to this the most I am.

[00:24:53] Tanner: Over analyzer on everything, right? I go sit in Ashley’s office for an hour talking [00:25:00] about how to direct, you know, how I should lead a cross examination. Where should I start procedurally, where should be? Where should we be at? Uh, the attorneys, we do a, a great job. We go to lunch together, right? It, we decompress by sharing our war stories with each other, and then we talk about our own families.

[00:25:16] Tanner: So it’s, uh. It’s all interwoven.

[00:25:19] And just from like a legal strategy standpoint, um, you know, we talked about the style, the, you hear all the time, I want the bulldog or whatever. Mm-hmm. Right. Why is it important to be a chameleon in, in this, in litigation?

[00:25:33] Tanner: I think it’s important in litigation because if, let’s say the other party is getting screamed at, or the judge is getting screamed at, or sorry, the judge is screaming at the other party, you need to know when to shut up.

[00:25:45] Tanner: Yeah. Like, and that’s as an attorney. Yeah. So, and Andrea was talking about the duality of, you know, Tanner or an attorney. I think what I try to do with clients is say if we go into the [00:26:00] courtroom, you will see a different version of me. I don’t know that you’re even gonna recognize me. Right. And, and I’m being serious.

[00:26:07] Tanner: Because the way that we have to go present right in that arena is a lot different than us sitting around, you know, I, I’m not wearing a vest. You know what I mean? Like, we’re buttoned up and I’m addressing a court. Okay, I have a job to do and, and I’ve got my own I professional responsibility here. That’s really dialed up.

[00:26:27] Tanner: And so learning that chameleon aspect of. Okay, how do I interact with the court coordinator? How do I interact with the bailiff that day? Right? How do I interact with the judge the first time that I see her and she takes the bench or him, um, and then when you get into litigation and you realize that it’s going one way or the other.

[00:26:47] Tanner: I clients struggle sometimes with, ’cause I’m, I’m real bad. I, I run the show, right? I will stand up, put my hand up and say, stop talking. Like, because I know what needs to [00:27:00] happen. I gotta get you there. You gotta let me get you there. Right. So that chameleon aspect. Yeah. When you’re winning a case and you know that you’re winning, you need to shut.

[00:27:09] Tanner: You need to shut up. Yeah. You need to sit down, stop selling. You need to sit there, write on your pad the rendition. Do not smile, do not, you know, frown, don’t cry. Sit there, take it and move on. Right. The time to pipe up right is, that’s at my discretion. If I think it’s going a different way than it’s going, then I’ll burn it down in there.

[00:27:29] Tanner: Right. As far as to try to get my point across because I just, I don’t like being told no, and I want to, I again, I. I

[00:27:39] just don’t like that. Well, let’s just go through like stylistically, you’ve got the client that, uh, maybe has the bad facts, right? So if you go in there and puff your chest up like Tarzan and beat your chest and start screaming and yelling, what, what happens there?

[00:27:53] Tanner: Yeah. Right. You’re gonna get rolled. Yeah. Uh, I had a, a judge in Tarrant County. [00:28:00] Um, my client admitted to doing something on the stand that was very detrimental to his case. Did you know

[00:28:06] before, was that something that he shared with you before or not?

[00:28:08] Tanner: No, of course not. Uh, he, it came out and, but you asked him, did you ask him before?

[00:28:13] Tanner: Yeah. What are they gonna say bad about you? Right. Nothing. And, um, yeah, roll through that. Yeah. So, so it was a divorce and, uh, we were at a temporary orders hearing. There was some children involved. He failed to tell me that he was engaged to another woman and he was having a baby with this other woman.

[00:28:32] Small fact. Small fact,

[00:28:33] Tanner: just. He, he was wanting something that was unrealistic, given those facts, right? I didn’t know those facts. Okay? So I’m going in there, you know, beating the drum for this guy and they produce a Facebook post. Well, it’s a gender reveal on a baby that he’s having and he’s in the picture.

[00:28:53] Tanner: And here’s where I always tell the story because it’s, this is family law in a nutshell. I [00:29:00] stand up, I’m your advocate, right? I gotta stop this train. I. Somehow and object. I make the most canned objection ever. That it is not relevant to the case. Okay? The judge in the case, uh, anybody in Tarrant County could probably guess who I’m talking about, uh, stands up, takes his own legal pad and starts hitting himself in the head and he goes, relevance.

[00:29:25] Tanner: And he goes, sit down, Mr. Breed, looks at my client and then just grills him for. Yeah, five minutes. And so I sit there and I go, okay, this is not going well. Right? But those are the curve balls that we get where we walk out. And I’m not gonna tell you what I told him in the conference room, because again, I have this irrational perception or self-confidence.

[00:29:49] Tanner: I wanted to go win that case for this guy. I believed in it until the facts showed something else, right? Doesn’t mean that I’m not his advocate still, but I can’t help you if you don’t tell me.

[00:29:59] Mm-hmm. Yeah. [00:30:00]

[00:30:00] Tanner: And I don’t want to find out. Because, and I wanted to talk about this too a little bit. I’ve been talking to a lot about clients.

[00:30:07] Tanner: When you go to a courtroom and you’re sitting there in front of a bunch of people, you know, the, the, it’s kind of a revolving door. Sometimes there’s attorneys coming in and out. You’ve got court reporters, you’ve got bailiffs, you have, uh, you know, witnesses that might show up. We’ve gotta get you prepared for that because it’s terrifying.

[00:30:26] Tanner: I was examined once. For attorney’s fees. I was cross-examined on attorney’s fees one time and I almost forgot my name

[00:30:34] and I can, I can see. And you do do this for a living? Yes. I’m not kidding. Yes, it is. It is. I have, and I’ve, I have been understand too and like, and I’m a confident person, but sitting underst stand and having a judge on opposing counsel ask you questions, it’s like, it is.

[00:30:48] Tanner: Yeah.

[00:30:49] So it’s good to hear that you, even as an attorney. Feel the same way. Well,

[00:30:52] Tanner: and I tell people that too because it, it is scary. It’s, it’s very tough. You’re getting, you know, it’s the other person’s [00:31:00] job. They’re doing their job. If they’re making, it’s under oath. You Yeah, it’s under oath. If I

[00:31:03] don’t say the truth, then I can get in major trouble.

[00:31:06] Tanner: Well, and that’s the thing too, is it’s like it, I’m gonna go at you. You want me to go at somebody, right. Their job is to come at you. So we can’t be surprised when they’re asking you hard questions. And I can only be the shield so much, right. I’m great at being the sword, but you know, you stand up and you wanna be the shield too much.

[00:31:26] Tanner: That’s where you gotta start. Chameleon, you know? Well, that’s where you gotta start looking at the judge. That’s a new verb. Chameleon. Chameleon. Because the judge might look at you and go, that’s enough. Okay? Like she’s she or he’s gonna answer this question like, I see what you’re trying to do. Time for you to sit down for a little bit because.

[00:31:45] Tanner: And then that’s our own discretion as far as how much we wanna push that. I know that Justin and I probably have similar courtroom demeanors where I definitely get to the line quite a bit. Uh, but it’s. Stuff that I [00:32:00] think is important.

[00:32:00] It’s kind of fun when you get to say like a bunch of slang words that somebody called somebody else and you’re, you asked them if they believe in co-parenting and then they say yes.

[00:32:08] Then you just exhibit 1, 2, 3 though. Right. That’s our, that’s the only like sauce that we get sometimes. Yeah. Do

[00:32:13] Tanner: you think that you talk to your ex in a reasonable manner? Of course. And then they judge me. I approach and I show, and then this’ll see you next Tuesday, and then it’s, uh, you blankety blank blank.

[00:32:24] Tanner: And I, and I go, well, I. I didn’t say it right. This is, this is you. So that’s, that’s why we’re here.

[00:32:31] Yeah. And, and what I, what I always find, which I didn’t know until I started working there, is how much you guys care. I mean, so many times I wish I would’ve videotaped any of you coming back from court how upset you were when something didn’t go the right way.

[00:32:44] How upset when the process wasn’t followed. Or a judge just said, we’re going to lunch break and you couldn’t finish your, your, your case. I mean, and that’s I think the side that, that clients don’t see how much you care. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s not that it’s a JOB, you [00:33:00] invested in them, you prepare them, and then you come to the office and you’re either super happy because it went the right way and it feels like a victory or something goes wrong, and how, how it affects you guys.

[00:33:10] That’s, that’s, I think a lot of people don’t see, no, it, it, it, it definitely, I, I know it beats, I mean, I’ve seen. All of our individuals come in very distraught when a client is upset and you know, I sometimes get the luxury of, of seeing, you know, the, the, the, the tail end piece of that. And so I can take the emotion out of it.

[00:33:30] Um, but I watch, I watch that, I watch the faces and so when I, when I see somebody that’s really being. Tough on one of our individuals, and I know we get paid and we’re supposed to just do our job, but the human being aspect of it is, is huge. And we just, that’s why we talked before. We don’t, we won’t put up with people that just think they need to tell everybody how the rubber met the road and then.

[00:33:54] Be rude in the process and all that, and I just, I think it’s really cool for people to see the dynamic. Yeah. And you don’t [00:34:00] see it in a little podcast, but you know, it’s also important to know that the people that are here are the best. I mean, they just are. I. Um, so that, that leads me into the next question there, Tanner, as far as I’m gonna put you on the spot.

[00:34:13] We talked a little bit about tough clients and how you deal with tough situations. Can you talk a little bit about, uh, some of your best experiences or best cases or really memorable examples that come to mind as far as, uh, a, a big achievement in a courtroom and kind of what that looked like?

[00:34:30] Tanner: Yeah. Um.

[00:34:33] Tanner: The best cases. Best is a hard one, right? Because I enjoy difficult cases as much as it takes from you. I do enjoy the cases that require, uh, court intervention, and I’m very open with clients. Um, I, I wanna be in a courtroom more than anybody. It might not be what’s best for your case right now though, but just know that that’s really where I want to be as as much fun as sending emails is all day long, [00:35:00] right?

[00:35:00] Tanner: Uh, the best results have been where I truly feel like we can get behind a client’s position as a person. Not just that they have better facts in a case, um, but we believe in what they’re doing as a person.

[00:35:16] And that includes somebody that starts in a really tough situation too. Correct. Is that, is that right?

[00:35:20] Tanner: Yeah. I have a, I thought about this. You know, I had a case, um, when, when we get into best cases, there was this case I had in Weatherford and there was a child, she was a teenager and she was gonna get interviewed by the court, and the court had called me and the opposing counsel and told us what they were gonna do.

[00:35:40] Tanner: He said, Hey, I met with the kid. This is what I’m gonna do. It was not to the benefit of my client. Okay? So I, you know, instead of just taking that and just canning it in with my client and go, well, this is what judge wants to do. I asked the court, I said, I, I need to have a hearing. You gotta give me a shot here, okay?[00:36:00]

[00:36:00] Tanner: Because my client needs it. Um, and at least deserves that opportunity. We go have this hearing, uh, it’s this big knockdown drag out hearing. And I, uh, was cross-examining the opposing party and I got her to admit something on the witness stand that put a full stop on the hearing. And the judge stood up from the bench, uh, called the attorneys back in chambers and said, uh, I’m not doing anything today.

[00:36:26] Tanner: Your client’s not gonna, you know, I’m, I’m not, I’ve actually changed my decision, uh, based on what you just pulled out of her. Right. So, you know, it’s not every week that we pull the rabbit out of the hat. Uh, that might be a misconception, but, um,

[00:36:44] that day was a win. And why’d you push forward in that? I mean, I know that you said it was detrimental to your client’s case, but I mean, that’s a pretty big fact when a judge tells you, this is what I’m gonna do, how did you at that point go?

[00:36:55] All right, let’s push the gas pedal client. We need to spend some money and let’s go challenge this, [00:37:00] this judge.

[00:37:02] Tanner: Because I hadn’t had the chance to examine her yet, as cocky as that sounds.

[00:37:06] No, I like it.

[00:37:07] Tanner: I’m telling you it, I needed to give me the shot. Yeah, right. Because look, if she, if she would’ve went a hundred for a hundred, great.

[00:37:16] Tanner: We’re we’re at the same net effect.

[00:37:17] What was the client’s like at, how were they, what could you perceive their emotional state was? Yeah. Shocked. Like, what the hell are we doing? Kind of shocked.

[00:37:25] Tanner: Yeah. ’cause I told, I mean, I’m, I’m very open and honest going into these things. I go, look man, this is probably how it’s gonna go.

[00:37:31] Tanner: Okay. I’ve talked to the court. Um, but I think that if we have a hearing on this, you know, look, like I said, if everything goes the way that it needs to go for them, then this is how, this is where we’re gonna end up. But at least let’s take the swing at it. Right? Love it. I You can’t hit the home run if you don’t take the swing.

[00:37:52] Tanner: Uh, it’s kind of one of those, there’s a million analogies on it, but it goes back into I wanted [00:38:00] the opportunity, right, to see if we could change the narrative. And we did. And it was to, you know, it caused quite a bit of conflict with, uh, some behind the scenes stuff. And that’s where you go, I’m here to do a job.

[00:38:16] Tanner: Until the court tells me something different.

[00:38:18] So 30 seconds, you’ve got 30 seconds to tell people or kind of give them our sense of feeling about you, like your, your personal life, maybe 45 seconds. But, but just tell us, like, tell us what makes you go man.

[00:38:33] Tanner: Yeah. Uh, I mean, I, I grew up in Fort Worth. Um, loved it.

[00:38:37] Tanner: You know, I, I went to law school down in San Antonio. I wanted to get back up here as fast as I could. Uh, family here. Uh, I met, uh, my, you know, beautiful, amazing wife and this is where we wanted to be, right? And we had our son. And you know, she’s a better

[00:38:53] dancer than

[00:38:54] Tanner: you, right? She is a, yes, she is. Uh, she’s more motivating to me than [00:39:00] anybody else in my life.

[00:39:01] Tanner: Um. I see what she does on a day-to-day basis while being, uh, the mother that she is to my son, and it gets back into that I can be critical of other people. I see what good is. Right? I have good examples. I have you right. I have thanks, man. No, I mean like I, that motivates me, right? Um, when you see good, you, that’s what you want to have, you want to have that effect on other people as well.

[00:39:28] Tanner: And so look, yeah, do I like to go play golf? Sure. Like I, that’s my favorite thing to do outside of, you know, being around my family. Um, but yeah, really I just try to balance out. Uh, I, I work out a lot. Um, I read a lot. That’s something I think people are surprised sometimes. I read exclusively fiction,

[00:39:49] really

[00:39:50] Tanner: like I gotta get out of.

[00:39:51] Tanner: The real world. Yeah. I mean, it’s, you know, anybody that knows me, I mean, my wife would get a kick out of it. You know, I’m, I’m a big, uh, like [00:40:00] Freedom McFadden and Dork, right? Like, or Colleen Hoover. People are so surprised, right? They’re like, oh my gosh, you read that? I’m like, I love it. I can, I cannot get enough of this stuff.

[00:40:10] Tanner: Right? And so it’s just that balance, right? Of you have an athletic background. I played baseball in college. Um, that’s an example that I wanna set for my son as well. You know, I want to, I want to be. Healthy. I want to be able to run around with him and then, uh, you know, get out on the golf course with my friends, go out to the ranch.

[00:40:29] Tanner: Um, you know, just try to kind of keep that balance.

[00:40:33] It’s

[00:40:33] Tanner: tough.

[00:40:35] Well, I think that takes us through kind of just a highlight. I, I did wanna say this is just a sign, right. And what we do and who we are, and that’s what we’re made up of. So I, I really appreciate you just kind of sharing some insight with.

[00:40:50] What we, or why we know you’re so valuable. But it’s, it’s kind of cool to just hear from your honest thoughts and I appreciate it today. Uh, obviously if you want to get in touch with us, uh, and [00:41:00] see kind of what we’re all about, um, and, and how we can help navigate a situation, you can reach us at, uh, our website@lawyerdfw.com or reach us at 8 1 7 3 3 6 4 4 4 4.

[00:41:11] I can assure you consultations are worth it, even if it’s a, should we do this? Maybe we’re thinking about this. Should we file? We’re not gonna give you the canned answer of Let’s go file ’cause we’re divorce attorneys. I think you can see just by some of this, the dynamic of really understanding and trying to get through, uh, whatever it is that you’re going through at the time.

[00:41:30] Thank you very much.