Child Support Myths (Ep. 44)

[00:00:00] Justin: We’re back with In Your Best Interest. Today is show me the money. It’s talk about family support and child support. And if you don’t think you’re going to be involved in this in some capacity, 55 percent of the people around you will be. So maybe you’ll just get a few tips on how to deal with private school.

[00:00:16] Justin: Child support, visitation, all that fun stuff. So kick us off, Mary.

[00:00:20] Mary: All right. Well, there are a lot of misconceptions about child support and Texas is also very different than other states, too. So I think we’re going to definitely hit on that today. So I’m going to throw some questions at you and you’re going to throw back some answers.

[00:00:31] Mary: So let’s go with number one. What can a parent do if the other parent stops paying child support?

[00:00:37] Justin: Part of the answer depends on whether the other parent has resources, okay? so there’s the Attorney General which enforces child support in the state of Texas and they do that for free now as we know nothing is free, right?

[00:00:52] Justin: So you’re gonna be waiting a little bit longer to get that process going rather than going private You’re gonna be in a [00:01:00] room with a lot of people that are trying to get money paid to them and then you know, you’re just they’re doing that cattle call. Now they do a great job of with the resources they have of getting through that and sometimes people don’t have any other opportunities or resources to do it themselves and, you know, one of the things Andrea and I’ve talked a lot about is when you’re not getting money, the whole reason you go to court is to get money that you don’t have.

[00:01:24] Justin: So it’s a very tough position to be in as a mother or father Who is supposed to be receiving child support. It’s a court order and they don’t get it. But the enforcement of the child support, it has a lot of teeth to it. So you file a motion for enforcement of the child support if you have a valid order in the state of Texas.

[00:01:44] Justin: And you go forward and there’s a lot of remedies that the court can give you, but the motion for enforcement of child support itself is the vehicle or the pleading that we use. And that gets everybody to the party to get the spigot turned back on as far as payment. And like I said, the courts have a lot of [00:02:00] abilities to do things like suspending licenses to putting jail, someone in jail.

[00:02:04] Justin: There’s a lot of different remedies, and we can talk about that in a bit, but that’s the vehicle of how you get

[00:02:08] Andrea: it. But to be honest, like, how strong is that enforcement if I go to the attorney general’s office? I mean, I’ve been in that situation, and I always felt it was a little slap on the hand, do better.

[00:02:18] Andrea: And nothing happens. I had four kids, I didn’t receive child support, the other party was intentionally unemployed for a long time and then took a piss poor job to not pay child support because they thought it was mother support instead of child support. And I always felt whenever we went to court, not with you, but when I went to the OIG back then, there was, you had the hearing and then there was nothing.

[00:02:36] Andrea: I think there was only one time I felt that they gave a response to him and said you’re old enough and you have four kids in this world so you need to Get yourself out there and do a job. So, how do I navigate that situation?

[00:02:47] Justin: Yeah, I think that it’s important to remember, too, the timing. Like, jails in Tarrant County, for example, if they’re really full, it’s not just whether they put them in jail.

[00:02:55] Justin: I’ve seen them put people in jail for the weekends. I’ve seen them put them in jail for 180 days. I’ve [00:03:00] seen them put them in jail for 180 days and they get out in 20. And so it’s like, you know, I would not think that 24 hours or two hours in a jail cell would be full, but you’re right. A lot of times, you know, it’s a situation where somebody is very underemployed either intentionally or unintentionally because they’re just lazy and they don’t go get a job.

[00:03:17] Justin: And so, mom or dad that’s trying to collect or bleed that turnip. Often feels like there’s no recourse and so they just get these big money judgments stacked and stacked and it takes a long time to feel the remedy.

[00:03:28] Andrea: And you can’t collect on judgments in Texas, it’s very difficult to collect on judgments in Texas.

[00:03:32] Justin: Well, that’s a great, that’s a great segue because child support is one of the best. Honestly, because you have with that recourse of jail time, suspending licenses, you can’t bankrupt or you can’t discharge it in bankruptcy. So there’s a lot of teeth to it and attorney’s fees can get tacked onto that as well if it’s for collection of child support.

[00:03:50] Justin: And so, that goes through the OAG’s you know, department there, and they log that, and then that amount continues to accumulate interest. So, if somebody wants to [00:04:00] perhaps get a house, or get a car, or whatever else, and they’ve got this child support lien outstanding it’s really hard.

[00:04:05] Justin: A lot of job employers go look at that. So, there’s, there is recourse now if done properly. But you’re right, a lot of times it feels like you go to court, you wait around all day and then they pass it and they give them a continuance, come back and then you do it all over again. And that part of it, you know, I think you told me in Germany, they just go pick you up, right?

[00:04:24] Andrea: Yeah. They make you have, I mean, I don’t know how it is. I’ve been gone from there for a long time. But first of all, it’s in my personal opinion this, the system is better. So I get Kindergeld, which is basically money for kids, translated. So I get Kindergeld from the government. So if I have four kids, I get four times, I think, 200, around 250 a month.

[00:04:41] Andrea: So there’s a mother of, a single mother of four kids that helps to get that. And the father has to pay money, but if they don’t, back in the days it was, if you don’t work, they’re gonna find you a job. And then if you have to clean out sewers and you are a doctor and say I can’t find a job, you think about that twice and then you actually find a job.

[00:04:59] Andrea: But I [00:05:00] think it was easier for me when I was here. I didn’t understand because it’s you as a person have to fight for the child support and I appreciated you back then when I came to you saying is it really worth it going to court because you spent a lot of money. in court now trying to get child support and if he’s still unemployed or he’s still doing those things, you spend the money that you’re not going to get back or you’re going to get a judgment.

[00:05:20] Andrea: Do we really want to pursue that case? And we actually didn’t back then and we just, like you said, timing. We waited. But, to me, having been in that situation, I always felt the system is totally broken because you fight an uphill battle as the person not receiving child support. And that’s why people end up with three or four jobs trying to feed dipshit.

[00:05:38] Justin: It’s pretty rare, I think. That you see people that have a lot of resources not pay child support, like it, you know, you see people get behind because just logistically, they just don’t get the check in. But, you know, one of the great things about threatening the enforcement and the teeth that come with that and the remedies that come with that is that, you know, most people that have [00:06:00] resources don’t want to.

[00:06:00] Justin: The other piece to that is if you’ve got somebody that legitimately has never worked and or they have these like oddball jobs and they’re an independent contractor and they pay themselves under the table in cash, that’s where it’s really hard for me to take a client’s money. I’m you really want to go probably through the OAG there because even though they’re not going to conduct a discovery and figure out, Whether this person’s hiding cash under a mattress and all that stuff, which by the way, we can’t find out.

[00:06:24] Justin: You know, it’s really hard to tell a client that we can do something that’s above and beyond other than timing, other than the speed and efficiency and the calls and the contact. So if we can’t conduct discovery and we can’t go show that they have other assets and all that, we’re not gonna be a huge value other than speed and efficiency.

[00:06:44] Mary: So a question that often gets asked of your law firm is, why do I have to pay child support if I never get to see my kids?

[00:06:51] Justin: Or, I’ve got them 45 percent or 46 percent of the time, how come I’m paying full boat child support? Child support, literally I tell people this all the time, I [00:07:00] would do about three things to the family code that would probably eliminate my need.

[00:07:04] Justin: In a lot of scenarios, one of them being a 50 50 kind of arrangement and a true just what do you make, what do you make, how much time and then just put in the calculation. So it’s all done that way. But our government has decided the state of Texas has decided to come up with this formula, right? And so, you know, the I don’t get to see my kids piece back to your question, It’s they’re very part and parcel.

[00:07:28] Justin: You cannot combine those orders. You can’t say if you don’t do this, then my remedy is not to give you the kids. It in fact says that in the order. So the courts are very specific about the punishment has to fit the crime and keeping those things very separate. And for good reason we have due process, meaning we have the right to go to court and you can argue your position, but you got to have clean hands if you want the court to do something.

[00:07:49] Justin: Right. So the last thing you want to do is. You’re not going to get to see the kid and when I see those cases come through usually we’ll file a counter enforcement for the withholding of the [00:08:00] child to offset. And then you’ve got two reasons and two reasons for the court to say y’all can both go to jail.

[00:08:05] Justin: You better do right, right? So just food for thought there,

[00:08:09] Mary: right? So that kind of answered. My next question is, can I withhold visitation if my ex stops?

[00:08:13] Justin: Hell no,

[00:08:15] Mary: no, don’t

[00:08:15] Justin: do that.

[00:08:16] Mary: You can get some big ass trouble if you do that.

[00:08:18] Justin: Yeah.

[00:08:19] Mary: This is a question that a lot of people are asking. How can I get out of paying child support?

[00:08:25] Justin: So first of all, it’s important to remember that child support is not contractual, okay? So you can’t just go, hey, I don’t want to pay it today or I don’t like the way you’re doing things and I’m not going to pay it. So child support’s a court order. It’s enforceable by what we call contempt of court, meaning you can go to jail, you can have your licenses revoked and all that stuff we talked about earlier.

[00:08:46] Justin: So there’s really no way to get out of paying child support that’s ordered or obligated. And the bigger piece that most people don’t realize is unless you file a modification of that child support, the cutoff period is the date of filing. So [00:09:00] let’s say you lose your job or you get injured or whatever else and you can’t pay it.

[00:09:03] Justin: And I know that we’re going to get to that in just a minute. You need to remember that the start date that you can modify is the date you file the pleading. It only goes retroactive. Even if you don’t get into court for a long time through the OAG, they can only go back to that start date on a modification of an existing order.

[00:09:19] Andrea: But I mean, to me, the question is like, why child support is, again, it’s not mother support or dad support. It is child support. So I don’t, when we have people call us like, what in the world, you put a child in this world and then now you feel like you don’t have to take care of the child and you don’t want to pay.

[00:09:33] Andrea: I mean, that to me, that’s always. If you have a kid, you have a responsibility, and if you don’t take care of your child, like, what person are you? That’s for me the much bigger question than,

[00:09:44] Justin: cause I hate this, I mean, I hate the thought here because it goes, I’ve seen it go so many different directions, obviously, because I’ve represented both sides of it.

[00:09:51] Justin: The general consensus is, if I have 50 50 or a similar amount of time, why am I paying this guideline amount of 20 [00:10:00] percent for one child, 25 percent for two, 30 percent for three? Why am I paying that net amount? Because I do all this other stuff. I pay for private school. I pay for babysitters that are not covered by child support, by the way.

[00:10:13] Justin: So why am I paying this other? And it feels kind of like a tip to somebody that you don’t really want to give a tip to. It like in, in a waitstaff setting and you’re like, that food wasn’t that good and I’m tired of you. I don’t want to pay you anything and I get that notion, but there’s a lot of people out there that say they do a lot of things that they just don’t do.

[00:10:31] Justin: They say they do things for kids and you, people out there that may have a child that the other side says, well, I bought diapers. Well, you did that one time.

[00:10:39] Andrea: Exactly, in the cost of kids. I mean, like the cost of kids, the older they get, the more they need. So it’s not in the child support if a normal income.

[00:10:46] Andrea: Right. And in Texas, you’ll talk about that is a, there’s a cap too, but if you have kids, the amount of child support you get doesn’t even cover. The basic stuff. Oh,

[00:10:55] Justin: no. We all know how, I mean, hell, I went to friggin Smoothie King the other day, it was like [00:11:00] 55 bucks for my three kids. I’m like, I love when people say, well, it’s gonna be this is gonna pay for her freight or pay for his freight.

[00:11:07] Justin: I’m like, dude, this doesn’t pay for McDonald’s for the, I mean, it’s not a, it’s not a game, you know, changer, I don’t think. And then as far as you know, getting it and making sure they’re paying it and then going back and filing a mod, you pay lawyers and then all of a sudden they won’t sue for custody because they’re paying you 12 bucks a month or whatever.

[00:11:23] Justin: It just really creates a lot of gasoline on the brush fire and I know that it has a negative connotation. Last thing I want to say is I hear all the time, well, she’s not using this for the kid or he’s not using this for the child. I hear that all the time and what I tell people is look. If you look at anybody’s bank statement, and you see how they’re living monthly, if she’s not, if she’s spending money on her nails, that’s a hundred dollars less than she has in her account, right?

[00:11:50] Justin: It doesn’t matter when she pays for the child or when she doesn’t. I can assure you here, she does not have a bunch of surplus. So, like, stop worrying about earmarking it [00:12:00] to the specifics of the child, even though it’s called child support. Just think of it as kind of family support.

[00:12:06] Mary: Right. And I think you kind of touched on something there, too, that certain things are not covered by child support.

[00:12:11] Mary: So, pay the parents, pay out of the pocket for that. So, what is child support supposed to cover?

[00:12:17] Justin: So, child support is supposed to cover the reasonable activities of a child. Your food your clothing. You know, hygiene some school supplies that, so when we have things called special needs or deviating from what we call the guideline child support, those special needs are above and beyond all of your general day to day, okay, food in your belly.

[00:12:40] Justin: Some of the medical support, even that’s broken out from uninsured medical or health insurance, what’s not covered there. So, really, it’s just kind of an added, hey, take care of the child. This is supposed to, you know, under the census data be enough to cover the food clothing and some stuff, right?

[00:12:54] Justin: Which it doesn’t. I can tell, I mean, it doesn’t. We all know

[00:12:56] Andrea: it. And it doesn’t cover, if you have a, if you have more than one kid, you have to have a bigger [00:13:00] place, whether it’s an apartment or a house, electricity and water and what else. And then if they have any activities, Anything outside school that’s not covered by school.

[00:13:08] Andrea: We know you talk about private school, but outside of school, that is not. My boys played football, and like, I ended up being the one paying for every little thing they needed. And I have twins, so that is expensive. There’s nothing covered under child support and would not cover. I just

[00:13:20] Justin: want to go to a quick little thing on that cap.

[00:13:22] Justin: So the cap in child support in Texas, for example, if you make 20 or 30 million dollars, it treats it as if you make 9, 300 ish a month. And then you apply the percentage towards that

[00:13:35] Andrea: to explain it. I think a lot of people don’t understand. Yeah.

[00:13:37] Justin: So, so if you have one child, it’s 20 percent of net resources to two kids.

[00:13:41] Justin: We’ll just take two kids. So

[00:13:42] Andrea: you would think of somebody like an athlete, for example, that makes whatever 20 million. I got one right now. Okay. So do you make 20 million a month? So you would think as a wife or whatever, baby mama or baby daddy doesn’t matter the other way around too. So I get 20 percent of the net resources, but that’s not the case in Texas.

[00:13:59] Justin: 20 percent of [00:14:00] net resources. The cap is that person makes 9, 300 bucks a month, which we never

[00:14:05] Andrea: lived on when we were married. We never lived on 9, 000 a month.

[00:14:08] Justin: No. And what I’m getting at is 9, 300 is like you make 20, let’s say you make a million bucks a month, which I’ve had clients that get close to that.

[00:14:16] Justin: The statute treats it as if they make 9, 300 a month and then you multiply the percentage. of the number of kids times that. So 20 percent for one, 25 percent for two. Let’s just stop there. So it’s 20, 20 percent of 9, 300 bucks when they’re making a million dollars a month. Right. Right. That’s crazy to me.

[00:14:33] Justin: By the same token, I just had a great talk with this fire chief yesterday and he makes right at the threshold, right at 120, 000 a year. And I know there’s people that like, dude, these are crazy. We make not that. And I get it. The 9, 300 a month. Really impacts the person that is right at the 10, 000 a month because it’s pulling about literally 25 to 30 percent of their actual income.

[00:14:57] Justin: And you know, these, the, this, the [00:15:00] statute, the regulators that made these statute, they don’t go back but every four or five years to do this census data. So like in my career, I think I’ve seen the floor or the ceiling for the cap changed twice maybe? In 15 years? We changed it.

[00:15:14] Andrea: I

[00:15:14] Justin: mean, I’m It’s like a thousand bucks.

[00:15:16] Justin: I’m like, dude, the inflation. If you just take the inflation data. There’s no way you can say that a thousand dollars difference on a cap on guidelines is correlates to what the total amount of pay and inflation. It’s crazy.

[00:15:29] Andrea: And that’s why

[00:15:30] Justin: I think like if you give expenses and they’re reasonable and a lot of those are earmarked for the child and let’s say you back out one parent and you look at availability and equality of resources in both households, I think there’s a better way to approach that.

[00:15:44] Justin: And I really hope that judges keep an open mind. They do certainly in the temporary phase of the case, but they’re really confined by what the statute says when you get post. And so these modifications where you have the athlete, it’s really challenging when you have, you know, single [00:16:00] mom just kind of going through life or.

[00:16:02] Justin: You know, single dad just, you know, barely making it and mom’s remarried. She’s got millions of dollars or whatever the case.

[00:16:08] Andrea: So there’s a question about the remarried. So does anything happen to child support? So if I get divorced and I get child support and then I remarry and now I marry whatever musician and like you said millions of dollars.

[00:16:21] Andrea: So does the child support now stop because I have better resources or?

[00:16:25] Justin: This one pisses me off, too. I mean, it really does, because

[00:16:28] Mary: Bring it, Justin. If

[00:16:30] Justin: you, like, you know, I’ve got clients that have remarried and they’re, they just, they’re not stay at home mom, they’re just literally, like, stay at home person, right?

[00:16:37] Justin: And they don’t do anything. But their spouse makes millions of dollars. And my client has custody of the child, okay? And they go, well, I make the statutory minimum, which if you think the maximum’s bad, the minimum’s real bad. So, the, in that circumstance, we try to show the resources and availability of resources.

[00:16:57] Justin: But the court’s not supposed to consider [00:17:00] someone else’s income. They look at you, right? Now they can look at, you know, whether you’re getting a bunch of money each month, and you’re spending a bunch of money each month, and there can be some attributed income, specifically if you had a job before, now you don’t.

[00:17:14] Justin: They can recalibrate a little bit, but we don’t see a lot of that and it’s just, it’s BS in my mind. It really is.

[00:17:21] Mary: Okay. So you touched on this earlier. So, so what happens in terms of a modification, say you lost your job and you’re not making any money or you have a situation where your ex, you know, they’re making a whole lot more money than they were.

[00:17:37] Mary: So how do you go about adjusting that child

[00:17:39] Justin: support? So I’m going to call out the OAG here. I don’t care if you get mad in my mind, one of the things that’s really frustrating is I’ve got clients that have ample resources that absolutely need no intervention by the OAG, meaning that they come in and file into a case where clients are clearly able to pay for their own lawyers [00:18:00] and they get in there and they do their calculations.

[00:18:02] Justin: And I know there’s state money and budgets and all that stuff that we have to deal with, but it does not make sense to me when you have two private attorneys that are fully capable. Of handling it to have a state government paid attorney in there to, I guess, help us multiply times 0. 25. And we already have these calculations already done.

[00:18:21] Justin: It makes no sense to me. So, you know, Andrea, she brought up a good example. She waited, how long did you have to wait for them to even respond to you?

[00:18:29] Andrea: I don’t remember. And then I had

[00:18:30] Justin: another one where they’re like the guys in the rears. Like a thousand bucks, and I’m representing the guy, and we’re just, literally, he changed jobs, we’re paying it direct.

[00:18:38] Justin: Do

[00:18:38] Andrea: you know how much my arrear is up to this day? Over 40, 000. And I have judgment, and I have everything, and there’s nothing happening.

[00:18:45] Justin: Well, that’s the bleed a turnip argument, right? I mean it really you know it’s not the state of Texas is judgment proof it that a lot of people have that connotation when it’s a judgment and child Support you have stronger teeth to it But what are you gonna do if he’s making [00:19:00] or she’s making the payments or minimum payments?

[00:19:03] Justin: And they choose to just keep racking up this interest till the cows come home. You know, that’s often times what happens when that arrearage gets that, that bad. And

[00:19:10] Andrea: they put everything, in my case, they put everything else, the house, the cars, everything else in the wife name. And we talked earlier about every married doesn’t matter.

[00:19:17] Andrea: So he has nothing to his name, doesn’t pay child support. Now the kids are all over 20 and they’re still 40, 000. And yes, how do you collect on a judgment? That’s not that easy. Then you have to spend lawyer fees or you have to spend hours and hours and figuring out. How to do this. So it’s that to me that I always say, like, not that Germany is better, but I’ve always felt better, like if we would just pay.

[00:19:36] Andrea: The mother or the father that, that kindergarten that support so that they have at least something coming in. Cause I personally, that’s my personal opinion. Think that we have so many issues with single parents and people working two or three jobs and the kids not being home by themselves because you have to provide for your kids.

[00:19:51] Andrea: And if the other person’s not doing it, if you have a lot of money to him, great. But if you’re not in that situation or you’ve been a stay home mom for a long time and now be home, stay home mom for [00:20:00] whatever, 15 years and raise the kids. And now you’re getting divorced and now you have to put yourself back out there and find a job.

[00:20:05] Andrea: You’re not going to find a fantastic job and make six figures right away and you’re providing for your kids. It’s not going to be enough. So you work two or three jobs. The kids are with babysitters, grandmother, whoever, and you stand on top of them. You’re supposed to fight. The other party who might live nice for child support, that’s just to me, the system is totally broken down.

[00:20:22] Justin: No, and I definitely think that to that point, you know, there’s bums out there, moms and dads that just literally try to hide their money. And, you know, I see people all the time, they go start a lawn care business, for example, and it’s in the wife’s name, all the equipment’s in the wife’s name. The pay comes from the wife to their, to her husband and, you know, obviously they go spend on wife’s credit card and wife pays that.

[00:20:46] Justin: It’s very hard to compartmentalize that if you don’t have a good benchmark. So if somebody didn’t have, if they were making a hundred grand and all of a sudden they’re making zero. Right. You really need that disconnect to go prove that they’re intentionally underemployed. [00:21:00] But I’ve used some, our firms use some creative ways to, when we have, you know, wife is the employer, I’ll go put a wage withholding on her and make her withhold for the husband’s amounts and things like that.

[00:21:10] Justin: And if she doesn’t, we find her 500 bucks, just like we will every time, just like a little corporation. And over time, what you see is if somebody is really trying to go get a house. That’s why I say you got to look at the stages of the case and where the client is in life. Because if you’re at retirement age and they’ve already got their house and they’ve already got their car and they’ve already got their credit cards and all this other stuff, they don’t give a damn about their credit.

[00:21:33] Justin: So the child support racking up and being out there, you know, they can lose passports and all kinds of things that they may not even travel. Right. So, you know, some of these aspects. that to me would be like catastrophic. I would hate to lose my driver’s license. I would hate to lose my freedom. I would hate to have a child support judgment.

[00:21:49] Justin: I couldn’t go get a job. But if you’re in a different stage of life, some people just don’t care. And I can’t or we can’t do anything as an attorney to fix people that just don’t give a damn. And we have people that don’t care about jail. They [00:22:00] like it. They want a free meal or something. I’m like, what? Or they just wanted like, they’re so venomous that they’re like, I don’t want to give her a damn dime.

[00:22:08] Justin: I don’t care if I go to jail. I don’t care what happens to me. And you know, you can’t shoot them.

[00:22:14] Andrea: Pick the better father for your kids or mother for your kids. Yeah, just don’t pick those.

[00:22:18] Justin: And that is a good point though. Don’t go, like, just messing around with somebody you don’t know. Because these things are real.

[00:22:26] Justin: I’ve seen people in very successful situations, end up with somebody that they thought was not the person they thought, and they are spending their life. Trying to fix that. So, it’s food for thought.

[00:22:41] Mary: So, let’s just touch a little bit on the modifications though. So, if someone is earning less or, so if you have a client that comes in and is like, say, hey I lost my job.

[00:22:52] Mary: Kind of what that process is, because again, it’s important to point out that date is important that you file to change

[00:22:57] Justin: what that order is. That’s right. No, and that [00:23:00] the question that you just asked is really important for people to remember. If you lose your job. You really cannot wait.

[00:23:06] Justin: I’m not being rude to the OAG. I know it sounds like I’m just beating up on them. You cannot wait for them to go file a proactive pleading to modify your child support downward. Okay? They will, they sometimes will do it. I don’t even know if I’ve seen a whole lot of situations where they actually go in and do that very often.

[00:23:24] Justin: I’ve got a lot of clients that come in and say, Hey, I contacted the OAG nine months ago, and I haven’t heard

[00:23:28] Andrea: back, and I’ve

[00:23:29] Justin: lost my job. Like, what do I do? I can’t work. I physically can’t work. They had an injury or whatever. And this interest and child support just keeps racketing and racking and racking up on them.

[00:23:38] Justin: So, it’s really important. I don’t care. If you have to hire Joe Schmo or if you have to go online and just look at how do I file a modification

[00:23:48] Mary: and

[00:23:49] Justin: even if it sucks and you completely screw it up, that deadline of filing it if you can’t afford to hire counsel is critical and you can’t wait because those bills rack up.[00:24:00]

[00:24:00] Justin: Right and all the things are still going on in life including the child support with the interest So it’s really important to do that.

[00:24:07] Mary: Let’s see. My ex just got a big promotion and is earning a lot more money Can I ask for more child support?

[00:24:12] Justin: Oh, well again circumstance. I’ve got a client yesterday.

[00:24:18] Justin: She called me She goes well, I moved to Florida. She’s not a client yet By the way, when we share these examples The state and person is all wrong. . Yeah, it’s, there’s so many of these examples. Don’t think we’re just out here sharing your business, but there’s so many of these examples. So I could literally say we have a client yesterday and I had 50 more of those two months ago, right?

[00:24:37] Justin: So we’re not trying to put your business on the street. But that said, she moved to Florida and dad, and she’s got the child in private school. And she’s moved off with her boyfriend she got, you know, they got divorced, her and her husband got divorced, kids are older, and dad is making a lot more money.

[00:24:56] Justin: But he’s got child A living with him now, [00:25:00] the oldest, and she’s got child B, the youngest, living with her in Florida, going to private school. And so she’s like, hey, can I go back for child support? Well, the answer is yes, of course. You can go back if there’s a deviation in the child support, if it’s been three years, if there’s a deviation of 100 more, or 100% from the last entry.

[00:25:20] Justin: There’s statutory ways to get back in the door just without having to go and show. But most people don’t know what the other party’s making when they get separated or divorced and they have no idea. So the statute says, well, okay, if it’s been three years, we can come back and take an automatic look.

[00:25:35] Justin: If you know they took a job and they’re making a bunch more money, we can take an automatic look if it’s over that threshold percentage. So you got to be smart about it though, because in that case. The child is living there, she’s getting income off of a trust stock, and this is probably too much information, but she’s getting income off a trust stock.

[00:25:54] Justin: Having child A over here and child B over here offsets a lot of times, right? So if you [00:26:00] just go tell a client, hey, go fire off a modification of child support, that offset actually was to her detriment. And she’s getting more money in child support now than she would if you go fire off that bullet. So it’s really important to analyze it and think about it and look at the circumstance.

[00:26:15] Justin: She goes, well what about the private school? I’m paying for the private school. Courts are like, we don’t, we can’t force a kid or somebody to pay for private school. We don’t get to do that. That’s your choice and so there’s a lot of things that courts just won’t really consider that seem very natural for them to consider babysitting, childcare you know, private school, you know, if it’s not a reasonable need and it’s not, you know, an excess of that reasonable need, you’re going to have a problem getting a court to deviate from the guidelines.

[00:26:39] Justin: So,

[00:26:40] Andrea: and he just said other states. So how does that work with other states? Cause if if they are allowed or they never been married and there’s no restrictions or whatever, and they moved to another state, is there still enforceability in another state or is it, no, It can you just do people think, because I heard that before too, I just moved to another state and then the Texas ONG will not find me and they will not.

[00:26:58] Justin: No. You can’t hide [00:27:00] from our government. They’re very good about finding you unless you just don’t like the United States and you can move out like some people are doing but realistically state by state. So. If one party is still in the state of Texas and the other party relocates to another state, the it’s called a long arm statute, this the state that the other party is in can enforce the child support in the other state, but they’re going to communicate through the OAG here and the OAG here is actually going to enforce it on their side in the state OAGs

[00:27:28] Andrea: work together.

[00:27:28] Andrea: Yeah. So

[00:27:29] Justin: Unless the whole case transfers to the other state, you’re generally going to be. Litigating the enforcement inside of the state, but you can do it in another state. Okay, that’s kind of confusing But it is the way it is now You’re going to also operate under the state’s laws that the order is until it’s transferred to the other state So you might move to you know, piedmont, north dakota and they might you know Say well, we’ll chop off their arms or whatever.

[00:27:50] Justin: They say they’re going to do you don’t get to utilize their laws just because they’re harsher until you transfer the whole case

[00:27:57] Mary: Okay. So that’s like, [00:28:00] we’re kind of getting towards the close here, but I’m sure there’s some other examples of child support issues that, that you and the firm face frequently.

[00:28:07] Mary: Is there anything else that comes to mind before we wrap up today?

[00:28:10] Justin: Yeah, I like to think about family support too. So when we talk about contractual things like paying for private school room, board, tuition, college expenses, those are contractual terms, okay? And it’s really important to separate, again, child support is not a contract so when you put those contractual provisions in, what Andrea was saying earlier, like, a lot of people are judgment proof in Texas, meaning they have their house, their homestead exemption, they have some retirement exemption, they have 60, 000 in personal property exemption, their motor vehicle.

[00:28:39] Justin: So it feels like you can’t go get them and attach that judgment. And it’s really spot on a lot of times. So be thinking if you can move the needle up in child support, be thinking about that because it’s got some tighter parameters around enforceability, but also the other side of that argument is child support’s modifiable because [00:29:00] it’s not a contract.

[00:29:01] Justin: Okay, so if somebody decides, Hey, I’m going to lock into this 1500 bucks a month, I’m making X, Y, and Z amount. I don’t put that amount in the order. And now I want to go back two years later and modify downwards. We see people do that a lot too.

[00:29:15] Andrea: So what the contractual piece is that enforceable now? So if we agree in a divorce decree, for example that 50 on a private school.

[00:29:23] Andrea: If one party decides, no, I don’t want to, then they have to modify the order. Is that so

[00:29:27] Justin: a contract, you’re not going to be able to go back and modify the contract. That’s why I was saying you need to understand the difference of the two because the contract, you’re not going to be able to go back and modify and you need to be real specific.

[00:29:37] Justin: If you’re putting things on paper, like room board tuition. There’s a cap on that and what that entails the school they’re presently in at the amount they’re looking at you need to think about that Who what when where why I’ve got a horror story about a client that stuck her kid The other side she was the mother.

[00:29:53] Justin: My client was the father this lady went and put her kid in this dressage which is some fancy [00:30:00] horse thing which is beautiful by the way but it’s it this dressage thing was astronomically expensive and the parties, the dad was going to be responsible for all extracurriculars and the lawyer didn’t go.

[00:30:12] Justin: Including but limited to this and an amount

[00:30:16] Mary: and

[00:30:16] Justin: so she goes and sticks them in and I’m like there’s no way in hell the court’s gonna make my guy pay for this 60, 000 a year school and this dressage lessons and all this crap but the order was very vague and for a while they did it took us a while to be able to get away from that and you don’t want to be in that situation either.

[00:30:33] Andrea: So you advise them though when I, when you have kids, you put in your divorce decree, anything that is not covered by child support. Would you advise? I mean, like college child support stops when the kid turns 18 or leaves high school, right? So then that ends, but most kids go to college. So you should put that into your divorce decree.

[00:30:52] Andrea: Cause I mean, you don’t know how, whatever the kid is five, you don’t know how you guys going to get along. Whatever, 15 years from now or eight, [00:31:00] 13 years from now. So what is your suggestion in a case like that?

[00:31:02] Justin: Yeah, it depends on whether it’s a divorce case or whether it’s a SAPS or a suit affecting parent child relationship, which is just a custody case without a divorce.

[00:31:10] Justin: So in a divorce case, I may Use that as a tool to negotiate a valuation versus, a value of an estate versus, you know, a situation where if you’re just in a custody case and we know that a party’s willing to pay for college, if I’m representing one party that’s getting all the benefit of that, of course it’s worth it.

[00:31:30] Justin: But if I’m locking two parties in by contract and one party over here is a deadbeat and they’re not paying for stuff, the last thing I want to do is obligate my side of the pie or my client to pay half the expenses, which they’re probably going to do anyway. The other thing to think about there, too, is the one thing that I will always say is we’ve got, when kids get older, all you get is basically, as far as discipline, is using money, iPhones, cars, college tuition.[00:32:00]

[00:32:00] Justin: You need to be able to use those things as a check and balance on your kid if they decide to be a turd. Right. And sometimes these kids, especially if mommy or daddy is like giving them all the things they want and telling them all the things they need to hear and our clients, the disciplinarian, now all of a sudden you’re binding.

[00:32:18] Justin: A person who is doing the right thing, discipline wise, to pay for a child that’s being a turd. And I don’t like that.

[00:32:25] Andrea: That’s true.

[00:32:25] Justin: So I don’t like overextending a lot of obligations in writing. Just do it out of the grace of your heart if you want to. But there are exceptions to that rule.

[00:32:34] Andrea: Okay.

[00:32:34] Mary: Alright, any other final thoughts on child support today?

[00:32:38] Justin: Just raise happy babies.

[00:32:39] Mary: Yes. Yes. Well, I know people will have a lot of other questions about child support and that’s when they should come see you at the Sizemore Law Firm if they live in the Dallas Fort Worth area. And to do that, you can call 817 336 4444 or visit LawyerDFW.

[00:32:54] Mary: com. Thanks so much for listening and have a great [00:33:00] day.