Men’s Guide to Divorce (Ep. 40)

Justin Sisemore  00:00

Justin Sisemore, Mary Maloney and Andrea Jones back at you with In Your Best Interest today is going to be the men’s Survival Guide to divorce. And don’t worry, ladies, we’re going to talk about our crazy brains and how it all fits together. So this is not meant to be just geared towards men. It’s kind of talking through what we see on a daily basis, and some of the things honestly that we see that you can start to look out for as well,

Mary Maloney  00:28

absolutely Well, I think what brought this topic to mind is that men go through divorce, but a lot of people think that it’s a lot easier for them than it is for women, and that is not necessarily the case. So So Justin, you’ve dealt with like every personality type under the book. What unique challenges do you see that men have during the divorce process?

Justin Sisemore  00:54

I get the question, probably I would say, five times a day. Do you represent more men or women? The answer is, it’s about the same number one, and then number two, I get the question, Do courts? Do they favor the woman? Do they favor them in custody, situations, in property division? And then, really, the third piece that that, that I get, is, how do I, you know, how do I get my husband to change behavior? Those are my big three. You know, it goes both ways with husband and wife. I’ve told I’ve said before, I can’t stand when we say I represent men only, or it’s the men’s or women men or women’s divorce. I don’t like that, but it is important to, just like we bucket things from the previous podcast and what we’re doing for spring cleaning, it’s important to bucket some some personality types. And I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that, is that it’s easy for men. You know women, if you have a really good wife, women are our backdrop. They are they are our entire life. They run our entire being. So the idea that it’s easy is just hogwash. Number one. Number two, the the concept that a man just gets over it because he doesn’t know, or he doesn’t express the emotion or show it, and he’s not supposed to, because maybe you all helped in gearing us that way, or maybe society, right? It’s, it’s just fake news and and and so I’ve, I’ve, I’ve shared tears with billionaires, with people that have millions of millions of dollars, and people that have not a dime to their name, people that have been really bad dads, people that have been really good dads, people that have been terrible and divorced and terrible to their wife and cheated on their wife and done horrible things that have made massive, massive changes in their in their core being. And I’ve represented people that are really, really, really good people that just turn into sour grapes, okay? And I don’t love that. You can put that in the man, woman category, but this whole concept a that it’s easy for the man, it is not you. I mean, you guys are, y’all are our rocks. So if we lose our rock, we’re a rudderless ship. Our buddies don’t even like hanging out with us, right? So, no, it is not easier. And then, you know, I’ll get into the court stuff and all that when, when you get there, but, but it’s a very, it’s a very real thing that that’s been happening a lot. And I think the independence, the financial independence of women, which is awesome, but, but the the concept that I’m financially independent, and now men are supposed to just accept things, and it’s not hard for them. It’s always been hard for us. We just show it. We show it a little bit more now.

Justin Sisemore  03:58

now.

Mary Maloney  03:59

So I kind of shared this example earlier. I know when my my husband was was married to somebody before myself, um, right, when he was out of high school, practically. And it was a short marriage, because she cheated on him. And it was a very, it was a very, it was back in the 80s. It was a long time ago when he got divorced, but it was a very difficult time. Was a different time then too. But he came from a Catholic family. He had friendships, basically couples friendships. And you know, it’s still painful to him to this day, because everybody turned his back, turned their back on him, from the men friends who didn’t want to piss off their wives, to the fact that he came from a Catholic family. He was the first divorce in the family, and there wasn’t any family support, really, either. It’s like, you know, it was a, we grew up in the Bucha Buttercup generation, you know. So, um, it’s, it’s still, it’s still painful for him, and it’s, it’s hard for me. Um. Um, to listen to him had that, the fact that he had to go through that so, so my, I guess my point here is that it’s really important that you have a solid support system, whether you’re a woman or you’re a man, you know, and sometimes it’s more difficult for men to ask for help in that situation. So how do you what would you recommend to men in regard to finding a support system in those situations? Hopefully it’s better today than it was back in the 80s. But

Justin Sisemore  05:29

yeah, I mean, first of all, I think that independence is the most important thing. I think what happens is we as a society try to find answers, and we often times start relying on third parties and friend groups and family groups and, you know, I think the reality is, if you really, if you’re really dissecting an individual that’s really hurting, especially men, they they have a tendency to not to all their independence kind of goes away, right? They got it either taken from them, or they became kind of this victim mentality and and I can tell you like, if you think that, if you hear like, Well, women are dramatic, you want to see a drama escalate. Look at a dude who has lost his way. They’re the most dramatic people I represent. They’re very challenging to get out of their own way. Everything’s everybody else’s fault. They become very victimized and and I that’s part of the reason why I wanted to do this like I think it’s important that that we don’t let it get there, and if it’s there, there’s a way to get out of that, right? I’ve seen some, I’ve seen some really incredible men get broken completely by their jobs, by their spouse, by their kids and and what they do, the next step that they take forward is the most critical one. And oftentimes they’ll just go, oh, here, here it goes again, and I’m just supposed to bury it, and I’m just supposed to bury it, and I can’t breathe and I can’t talk about it, and I don’t have a support group, because I just kind of alienated all those people. But it’s their fault because they’re family friends. Well, no, be independent. Have your own damn friend group. Okay, the I’m not knocking. Please don’t take this the wrong way. I’m not saying that it was easy for your husband. He probably let his ex wife drive that entire friend group. She probably walked, if we’re being clear, she probably walked all over him and pulled him in a direction he didn’t want to go, and he didn’t stand up to her to say no. And so if you’re that person that has been kind of that whipping boy, if you will, and you don’t have to flex. I’m not suggesting flex. In fact, don’t do that, but, but if you’ve been that whipping boy, you’ve got to start to assert yourself a little bit in in positions. What does that mean? Well, if you, if you don’t have any free time to go with your buddies, and I know this is Andrea is about to come the other direction with the female side, if you, if you don’t have any free time with your buddies, and your wife is just like you can’t do this. Can’t do this, and you can’t do that and all that. You’re gonna keep getting stepped on and stepped on and stepped on. And there’s personality types, like, type A will lash back. Then I’m not doing that right, but type B will just pull back, pull back, pull back, bury, bury, bury. And then they lash out, or they start doing random crazy stuff. They go into adultery, they go into drugs, alcohol abuse. And it’s, it’s like the cat that gets backed in the corner that starts scratching. So the biggest thing, I think, is making sure that you do an independence assessment first. Do you have independent friends? Do you have independent family? Can you talk about these things? And if you can’t, you need to baby step in. How you lay that out? Don’t just go in. I don’t have any friends and I don’t have any family. You need to baby step in that. Hey, listen, I think it’s important that, you know, I go do this today. I need to go do this activity today for me, just like it is for women. We talk about women a lot.

Andrea Jones  08:56

I don’t think in any relationship it is. You need to stay the person you are. You cannot just be part of something else. You have to be your own person, and only then can even add to a marriage or relationship if you lose yourself in becoming the wife or the husband, that’s a problem anyway. I mean, for male or female, but I think for men, it’s it’s um, harder, because you guys don’t share as much with your friends. We talked about like, when we women go spend whatever two hours together, we know what we cook for dinner yesterday, and our kids, our family, we know everything. You guys play golf for three hours, and then you come home and we ask you, how is he? How is his wife? I don’t know what, what did he talk about when we just hung out? You don’t share as much, and I think there’s a pride in there not to share about problems. So how do you get a man that is very private, even if he has the friends and has his friend group, how do you get a man in those situations to share? What can a man do to be more open? Because I think a lot of stuff that we women solve in those divorce situations, whatever we talk to each other, we seek out friends, and even, I mean, hopefully you have friends to use. Of you find people to talk about, but guys don’t really share deep emotion. Many of them are like you say, what is that? Buck up. Buttercup, whatever. Bucha Buttercup. So you don’t, you just suck it up and you don’t. How do you How does a man? Can? Can a can a man learn to be more open to to share those emotion Do you need a counselor? Is that it is there more safe place? Can you talk to your friends, or do you lose your face in front of your friends? I’ve heard that many times I can’t lose my face and share deep emotions in front of my friends. They have a certain image of me, and if I now share how I really feel, then they lose respect for me. I mean, how do you do that?

Justin Sisemore  10:38

I i love this topic, and I don’t pretend to be the expert, but I do, I do hear from 1000s of people this very issue. I will tell you right now, you were in, you’re in the meeting yesterday, we talked about retainers, and people sometimes want to know about retainers. I can’t tell you how many times, in modifications, I get a call from a from a guy he’s got a new wife or significant other. And I start in two questions. I start talking to him, and somebody that I don’t even know jumps in to tell me about their damn case. It’s It’s the new girlfriend, the new wife, or whatever, she’s going to tell me everything about that guy’s life and what I need to know, okay, that dude allows it, and he goes, Well, my wife knows he’s already devalued himself. He’s already made me my antennas go up because I know I’m not just dealing with him. I’m dealing with this other third party personality who clearly does not like the other woman, right? And so what I’m getting at about that independence and that sharing, back to what you just said, Andrea, is it goes both ways. Dudes, you you’ve got to you’ve got to be kind, and you’ve got to be reciprocating, and you’ve got to set agendas and dates and things like that we talked about in the last podcast. But, but women don’t step on him. Don’t step on him when he’s trying, even if he sucks at trying. Don’t step on him. Give him, give him a little bit of little wiggle room there. And what I see a lot is, you know, a type A or a type B person, a guy, goes and gets with this super type A take charge type woman, and he goes, she’s got it, she’s got it, right? And that goes back to that independent situation, if you do that, well, he’s not going to go share, because when he starts sharing, he gets stepped on. If he’s that personality,

Andrea Jones  12:32

 I mean with your friend, and I don’t mean with her, I mean mom, with each other, like, I mean even a type A personality, man, type B, it doesn’t matter. How do you share as How can men that is in a bad situation goes through divorce? That’s our topic men having a supposedly easier time, and we know it’s not true in divorce, if you need the connection and the conversation with other people, what tips do you have for men to actually get that out of you and not push it down and not swallow it all up and be what society expects, the strong one that can handle it. And because you have your own job, and you said you saw people broken, no matter where they come from, because of a divorce, for example, how do you get them to to find that safe place, the community, to actually share and get off their chest what really bothers them?

Mary Maloney  13:19

And I think too we can, I mean, we can talk about counselors, but I think the spirituality part of it that we talked about in the previous podcast, too, is important to bring into that,

Justin Sisemore  13:28

for sure, like the humility factor. The humility factor that happens in that spiritual transition, you know, that occurs, is a massive piece. Like I can’t if I just, if I didn’t have the spiritual component, I would, it would be all I Justin, Justin, Justin, Evin, listen to everything I have to say. Whatever you have to say doesn’t matter. Because why else? What difference does it make? So the humility factor has to be there. But going back to your question, Andrea, and I think it’s a good dialog between you and I, is that if, if I’m stepping on you and or I feel stepped on either way, if we don’t make, if we don’t start to make some things like the non negotiables, like, Hey, listen, you know, every time I try to talk to our child about phone use, you go and undermine my authority. Well, how do you you’ve got to start breaking that down. You can’t just say every time you’ve undermined my authority. You need to start writing those moments down. That’s why I tell clients to do these long little lists of kind of their day in their life, of their timeline, because these little things will build up. It’s not going to be all the time, just one big ticket item. And so guys are really bad about like, Okay, well, that’s not that big a deal, and it’s tomorrow, so I don’t need to worry about yesterday. And the reality is, you’re starting to get dunk. dunk, dunk, dunk  knock down, knock down, knock down. And so, or you’re the person that’s. Really abrasive, and you over talk her, and she doesn’t share any communications with you. And you never, you’re never really communicating. You’re just talking at and so it goes both directions. And dudes, I mean, I’m that way to sometimes see to my wife. I’m like, Well, I got to get this out. So it cuts both ways. So what I would say is, do an assessment, ask open ended questions to your wife or your significant other. Hey, you know, we got in an argument last night. What did I do that really upset you? Like, what? I know it was off and I didn’t, I didn’t meet who, what, when, where, why? And then shut the hell up. Okay, we the over talkers. Don’t shut up. The under talkers never talk, never talk. So ask the freaking questions. If you ask, Who, what, when, where, why, in almost any situation, business, in personal or whatever, but specifically with the significant other, and you sit there and listen. I don’t care how nerdy this is, if you’re really bad at communication, bust out your phone notes and start to write it down. It makes her know you’re listening to her, and then you literally read it. And if you read back, and it’s like, the next day, the day after, you’re like, that’s actually not that dumb, all of a sudden, we’re making progress. If every single time she says something, you’re like, that’s dumb, you need to go get a counselor, and you need to really do some internal reflection about whether you have narcissistic tendencies or all they’re the crap I hear 50 times a day.

Mary Maloney  16:22

So getting back to though, if somebody’s actually going through divorce, and it’s and they’re having a difficult time, and this could be male or female, but we’re talking about men today and how to survive divorce. How do they you know, like Andrea, you were saying there’s some guys that they just want to put up that front. They don’t want to let it come down in front of their front of their friends, but they need to, they need to get that support, emotional support, and be able to get it out they they can’t talk to their wife anymore. That’s done. So what are some good resources for men to get the support that they need?

Justin Sisemore

 You know, obviously for me, the my life changing, life changing thing has been Bible study, fellowship. I’m always going to start there. I don’t mean to get preachy, but I’m always going to start there. The spiritual side of that has changed my entire outlook. It makes me know I’m just a cog in the wheel. I’m here for a minute and I’m going to be gone. And nothing I say is that important, nothing I do is that important? So that, for me, has been a massive piece. So I think if you don’t have any of that, whether it be, you know, regardless of religion, regardless of whatever your situation may be, if you don’t have any spiritual component or ability to break and recognize that there’s something bigger out there, you need to start there. The second thing,

Andrea Jones  17:40

and there are divorce I mean, there are divorce groups, I know, in churches too. So if you don’t have never been or not, not in church, there are divorce groups in churches where you can actually go and be with other people that go through divorce and with other men, and then start there. Because if you’ve said, like, I’ve never done that before, I’m not a spiritual person, that might be a good way to go to. I mean, because that’s people that are Christian based help for divorce that help you through the situation.

Justin Sisemore  18:05

Yeah. I mean, I think what Andrea is talking about too, is like, that’s a sense of community and and what happens to a lot of guys that I see is, I’m like, Hey, where’s name your three best friends. Name your three buddies. I don’t have any, or I don’t have one name. Name name somebody that you’ve been friends with for four or five years. I mean, that’s a telltale sign, like, if your significant other or husband or wife or whatever, doesn’t have a friend for three or four years, or four or five years, there’s a reason for that. I’m not saying they have to go out all the time and all that, but if they don’t have somebody, they can pick up the phone and call that they’ve got that that relationship with. Go get it. Go figure it out. And I don’t care what it is you like to do. I love to play golf. Most people hate golf. They think it’s boring. That’s my thing. I get to go a couple times a year with my buddies, and we go on the golf trip. I play a lot of golf with my buddies. For me, that’s great. That’s my physical outlet, in addition to working out and other stuff. But I’m very active. If you’re not very active, it doesn’t mean you’re a failure. It’s just you need, you need a hobby group. And a hobby group creates a group of buddies. You know, we see a lot with, like, AA and all this stuff. Like, they become like, super, super close in those groups because they share a commonality, or common bond. So I think, I think that identification, Mary, of like, what it is you like to do, and if it’s nothing, then go start trying some stuff, until you figure something out. You gotta have some outlets. You just have to,

Mary Maloney  19:32

for sure, and then you can always, obviously see a counselor, and that way it’s just one on one. If you don’t that, and that might be a good first step for some people too. It’s just you.

Andrea Jones  19:42

There’s guaranteed privacy, so that’s not somebody going to talk about what you just said.

Mary Maloney  19:47

Yeah, and that’s important, because you need to be heard, and they can help you sort out your feelings too. So when you have a client that’s struggling with divorce, what kind of. Advice do you give them? That’s kind of a big question, isn’t it? Well, I mean, especially, I guess I’m thinking that if they’re a man and they’re struggling, kind of, what are your marching orders? Maybe I don’t know.

Justin Sisemore  20:13

I would say that my transition in the last five years of my 15 years, 16 year career, whatever it is, has been pretty stark in that, you know, I used to be like, God, what a I can’t even use the word on the live air, but, you know, you know, that’s how I would look at a dude, when our guy, whenever they would say, you know, I’m struggling with this, and I don’t have any friends, and I don’t know who I would talk to, I would just kind of go into that, man, you need to get out of your own way mode, right? I just, I can’t stand people that go in this victim mentality mode. It drives me it still to this day, drives me nuts. I’ve figured out a better way to deal with it, and I’ve recognized that sometimes people, over time, have just been kicked and kicked and kicked and kicked and kicked, and that’s men too, right? We’ve been just kicked and, you know, maybe we weren’t the coolest kid in school, you know, if you’re like me, and you had bird legs, you didn’t get to play, you know, football and all that stuff and all that do all this stuff, you know, I just kind of went and said, I’m gonna go find another way. I do understand that. You know, older dogs, it’s harder to teach those newer tricks, and they feel like they can’t. And I just, I don’t. I don’t work well with those kind of people. So if you’re that person that just says I can’t under any circumstance, don’t deal with us. Because I just, I can’t have that energy. By the same token, if you’re just barely a scooch above that and you want to try. Those are my favorites. Those are, I can’t stand them for the first like five months, and they probably can’t stand me, but then we start to really vibe, because that’s when they start to take flight. So the best advice I give them is, at that point, all right, let’s look at the day. Let’s look at the week. Let’s look at the month. How have you? How have you gone about this? And you know, once they get out of that victim mode and they start to make moves, I mean, it’s just like anything else, when you start stirring up the grease, or whatever you call it, it starts to it starts to get easier. It’s everything is a system. Your car is a system. Your body’s a system. Your mind is a system. Being a man is a system. And if you, if you make that start to be mobile and agile, it gets better. And I just, I just believe that. So I I’m gonna preach that till I’m dead.

Mary Maloney  22:27

Yeah. I mean, it really too. I think it goes back to that it’s really a process too, that you’re getting through those emotional things and to know that it’s gonna get better, you know that it’s not going to always be this horrible. You’ve shared some examples in the past that you know people that are down on the dumps, and it’s the make the bed story that I love, that it’s just like, just make your bed, you know, just start accomplishing these small things every day, to just get out of the funk and move forward and and do things for yourself and start loving yourself.

Justin Sisemore  23:05

Oh, this guy married this guy last last week. I talked to him on Friday, and he’s a client of mine, uh, client of the firms. And I mean, everything is a very, very big deal. And if he’s listening, I’m sorry, but everything is a big deal, right? Everything is super sad, and everything the system is out to get me in this and that. And we got through. We went to a trial in this case, and the judge was like, she saw what I saw in this guy very early on. Right now, he doesn’t view what he what he received, probably, as like a great result. I view where he started and where he finished as massive progress, and he still needs a whole lot of work, okay? And what I mean by that is now he’s like, Well, the judge didn’t give me all the time I need. I’m gonna go attack the judicial system, and I’m gonna go write a grievance against the judge, and I’m gonna go do this. And my wife, my ex wife is this, and she just didn’t give me the time. I need to explain myself. This is the guy that literally says that because our kids had some candy on Halloween and had some sugar in Halloween, that our child’s growth is stunted on the stand. I mean, you can’t, you can’t, you can’t get everybody all the way out of their way. We want to right? But some progress is that’s I got to look at it that way, because else I just go nuts. So my point is, is that in that situation, there are people that are so far down and so far gone, but they can make steps and leaps back. But I’m telling you, I will bet my last dollar that guy will be in a custody case inside of about a year and a half, because he will go right back to the old habits, right back to the old victim mentality, right back to not communicating. And you know, it’s not that hard. It’s just not so anyway.

Mary Maloney  24:57

So maybe we can wrap up. The podcast today with some success stories, or any success story in particular. I mean, I know we’ve talked about a bunch of your different success stories with clients. You know that somebody that started at rock bottom and that finally found his way, and since we’re talking about men, I’m gonna say his, because there’s a lot of hers out there too. Out there too. But is there any particular success story

Justin Sisemore  25:26

two in two years? So Lanny won’t use his last name. Never use a client’s last name. Probably shouldn’t even use first but here we are. Guy came into my office, probably one of my favorite success stories of not only a father, a broken husband, broken businessman, a lion. You could see it. I mean, he’s just like, you could see that he was that dude comes in, just wasted a couple first couple consultations, like, Hey, can’t even see you today. Come back when you’re sober. Comes back a couple days later. Pays for another consult, by the way, comes back couple days later, still, kind of got this stuff in his in his body, but he’s like, Man, I just, I got to do something here. She served me, and no time with his kids. Wife thought he was just a lifelong lost cause, drunk, idiot, blah, blah, blah. She happened to be a very, very difficult individual, and in that case, we went from supervised and or limited to no access, because he started out with a DWI and some other stuff, and went all the way to primary custody. Okay, that did not happen, because Sisemore got up on the soapbox and did all the things, although I did a good job in that case, but, but it happened because a I was patient enough with him to recognize that he was capable. I was I buried myself enough and humble enough to go all right, give this guy a chance. And this was several years ago, so I was still going through this journey of like, have more empathy, right? Not everybody can do it overnight. He goes back and to this day, two years later, primary custody wife, ex wife, decided he’s never going to be a good dad. He’s never going to be a good businessman. Guy’s a multi millionaire, primary custody of his kids. Kids doing awesome. And not only that, he knows how to talk to his wife or his ex wife, and so anytime she tries to fire up a modification, I’m like, let’s roll. Okay. So that’s one guy, another guy, very, very successful guy, many, many cars, all the shiny things built a business did incredible big oil and gas. So they, you know, when the oil market’s hot, in Fort Worth, they get all the shiny things when it goes south, and everybody’s, you know, runs for the hills, at least of what I see, and that includes the wives all of a sudden, or, let’s say it’s husband, wife, interchangeably. Wives are used to a certain lifestyle, so market goes south. He goes into flight mode, which is just basically, I got to get away. I got to escape drugs, alcohol start creeping in. So he went from Titan to baby cub, and comes into my office. Had been on a 24 hour Bender, or 48 hour Bender in Vegas. You can still see the residue from from the weekend comes in very, very, very, very nice woman that he’s married to very good family. And I see this dude, and I’m like, I don’t even want to represent you. And so I tell him, I’m like, hey dude, I’m not going to represent you unless you do this, this and this. He goes and does it. And I never hear a call crickets. To me, there’s, I know the woman and I know the guy. There’s no way she would have stayed in that situation, but for that change, and he did it. He got a kick in the backside by somebody that gave him just an extra kick. And I had a very deep talk with him about my personal life. And I try to do that a lot, because obviously I got a lot of drama and skeletons in my closet too, not just,

Mary Maloney  26:13

let’s dig those out.

Justin Sisemore  27:30

Oh yeah. So it’s cool. It’s cool to be able to do that. And so that guy is now happily married. Kids are all intact. Phone calls, stop, crickets, non suit. Huge success. Two very different scenarios, two very broken dudes, very different walks of life. Both did incredible rebounds. That’s that’s the juice. That’s the juice I try to squeeze.

Mary Maloney  29:42

Why do you think they were successful?

Justin Sisemore  29:44

Grit, grit, dudes that have grit, that are independent, those are the ones that make it, and you can develop grit. I mean, anybody that’s in the military will tell you you can do that. Mm. And so this whole I can’t do it. That’s why I just keep saying I’m not going to deal. We’re not. 25 is not the year of victims. Hell no, no damn victims. This is the year of grit. And let’s start with one day at a time. Let’s start with one little piece of grit, and let’s just move that grit forward. And remember, seasonality, we’re gonna have grit, we’re gonna lose grit, we’re gonna get it back. It’s okay.

Andrea Jones  30:24

And so what are the things that you would advise a guy not to do when you go into the divorce? Because we talked about what to do, what would you say not to do? I mean, I’ve seen I’ve seen men transitional girlfriend like got served and a week later moving in with another woman and things like that. So I don’t know whether you see that often. I hear it a lot. Already has a new one.

Justin Sisemore  30:45

Don’t do that

Andrea Jones  30:46

Yeah. I mean, that’s one example. But what are other things that you would advise a guy in the city, because we’re talking about men, not to do when, when, when you are already in a divorce process. We talked about before, having friends and stuff, but now, when you’re in the process, you got served, or you made the decision to get divorced and you file, what should you not be doing?

Andrea Jones  31:04

Yeah,

Justin Sisemore  31:04

Yeah, a lot of men, contrary to popular belief, are pretty lonely creatures, right? We actually crave the nurturing of our mothers as men, and so we’re pretty lonely creatures and and so we tend to just jump in. Like you said was once with some third party. That’s, that’s absolutely the worst thing you can do. She’s going to probably walk all over you because you don’t even know who you are, and you’re going to end up with the wrong person because you don’t know who you are. So don’t do that. The biggest, the biggest thing too, is it’s just not that hard to treat your spouse, ex spouse, mother of your children, who half of your child is made up of that individual as you want to be treated and remember, let’s just say you’re just that arrogant. You need to win and you need to show her who you are. Type when you get into a courtroom and your exhibits are all of your personality out on text message, out on Facebook, and you live your life by vocalizing in writing and in Exhibit form that is clear and convincing evidence. That’s how I dominate you in a courtroom. And so I just ask you open ended questions like, Hey, listen, you say you’re co parent, right? Yes, and you’re super good dad, and you just love your you know, you just love trying to work together and all that. And I’ve got 50 fu text messages sitting in the My Folder, right? I’m just, I’m ready, I’m salivating, I’m ready to eat you. So the first thing is, communicate less. Say less. If you can’t communicate, well, ask open ended questions. Don’t direct, don’t project, don’t conclude for your wife or your ex wife or the mother of your children. Don’t Don’t speculate how she feels. Ask her the questions, process and dissect the answers. Don’t respond. Sit back and chill, and then move forward, and some of those things, you know, you probably go, ah, that’s that’s actually makes sense. And if you’re like, Well, you don’t understand, I hear this all time. You don’t understand. She’s crazy. And, you know, her new husband, I hear all this crap.

Andrea Jones  33:13

The ex Is always crazy

Justin Sisemore  33:14

But sometimes, right? But, but, but if you will compartmentalize and realize that you have to, you have to deal with this person. If you have kids, you’re going to deal with them. And so we got to fix it. So the only way to fix it is, in my opinion, take the communication down. Start to journal, start to, you know, dialog. Start to make forecasts, start to make calendars. You know, really, really keep track of what’s happening inside of emotions, in your in yourself, and what’s, what’s the trigger points for your significant other or ex, and then, you know, I think what’s going to happen is, ultimately, kids are smart. They’re sponges. They know when there’s animosity. If you can, if you can let the wind out of the sails and let that animosity die.

Andrea Jones  34:05

Your seat. I was telling Counselor l, told me, once keep your side of the street. Yeah, and then, and then. So it doesn’t matter what the ex wife is doing or what she’s saying, so just, just be the best dad you can be, I guess. Yeah. So, so don’t, don’t get overly aggressive. I’m sure that you don’t want them to post anything on social media.

Justin Sisemore  34:22

Nope. And don’t involve them. Don’t involve family and friends. And this is what we deal with narcissists too. They say, Do not go and engage your friend group or your family group to get support for how you’re feeling. Don’t don’t do that because you’re gonna get a lot of opinions, especially from sisters and moms and aunts and cousins and all that, and it’s impossible to retract. And I have a lot of people that actually stay married. I try to encourage people to stay married. So So I have a lot of people that actually end up healing, and then their whole network and whole surroundings broken because you just went on a terror talking about how bad the person is, and then you want to go back. Yeah, so go to. Counselor to do that or go to some third party place. Don’t. Don’t put it in your immediate sphere of influence.

Andrea Jones  35:06

That’s good advice, because I think a lot of people tend to just talk trash about the ex to everybody,

Justin Sisemore  35:10

and then you’re right there. Hey, listen?

Andrea Jones  35:13

Anything else? Anything else?

Andrea Jones  35:15

Yeah,

Justin Sisemore  35:15

Yeah, I mean, attorney. Look, attorneys aren’t we’re not going to fix every life situation. We’re there to facilitate and help you, but there’s there. You have to use the in the totality of your surroundings, and that’s why we talk about, you know, health, wellness, spirituality, business. You have to use the totality of your circumstance. Your lawyer is there to facilitate, you know, things for a short window of time, and then they’re gone. So don’t think that your lawyer is the devil or God’s gift to the earth. Don’t think either one of those, because you’re then taking away your independence.

Andrea Jones  35:48

He’s not your counselor. I could be talking, yeah, before that, your lawyer is not your counselor. Very expensive counselor.

Justin Sisemore  35:53

I’ll shine your shoes for our rate per hour. I try to get you out of that. Don’t, don’t do that. I mean, it doesn’t make sense. So so I think, I think if you, if you really break that down, and you should have a very good business relationship with your attorney in being able to do that, and when you’re going through the divorce process, if you can’t have these communications, and there’s not a clear understanding and a clear common ground, even if your attorney doesn’t agree with you, which your attorney should not agree with you most of the time you’re getting a divorce for a lot of reasons. Some of them are your fault, and I’m just gonna say that some of them are your fault. And if you’re the person that can’t accept that, tough cookies. We ain’t we ain’t gonna be your firm anyway, so it’s fine.

Mary Maloney  36:35

All right. Is that your final word on the topic? All right, yeah. So if you live in Texas, and you still think you might want to talk to Justin Sisemore. You can reach the Sisemore Law Firm at 817-336-4444, or visit www.lawyerdfw.com We also invite you to follow the podcast and share it with friends who might find it helpful. Thanks so much for listening in and have a great day. You.